Small Talk Revival Thread

[codeine]

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[Guest]

It's actually sorta slow at work today, despite a few changes that happened overnight to our system confusing people. I keep dosing off.

[futures]

can we talk about rachel dolezal? i'm honestly not sure how to feel about the whole thing. 

[Dominic_]

can we talk about rachel dolezal? i'm honestly not sure how to feel about the whole thing. 

I thought this was the funniest damn thing I've heard about all week. I'm sure there's a politically incorrect joke or two in there somewhere.

[Guest]

I have not read enough on it to form an opinion. One article stated she did it for money, making speeches on race relations and such. The whole thing is odd though, but hey, who am I to judge?

[futures]

I've read a lot of opinion pieces on the subject and it always leaves me the same way: if she truly identifies as black, who am I to say she isn't allowed or that it isn't right? I am a supporter of the trans community and I believe all trans people everywhere deserve equality. I don't think I'm being oppressed if a person assigned male at birth identifies as a female.. but I am not black so I don't know if it is within the rights of a black person to feel oppressed if a non black person comes out as transracial. (I use that term lightly but I do not want to use quotation marks because I feel that that makes it look like I think it's fake, which it may not be. I don't know.)

[Guest]

I agree with everything you are saving. I'm a huge supporter of people being happy and everyone being equal, but like you said the race thing makes it hard to say. There is obvious racial tension in this country, and it seems that someone being transracial could cause that tension to be worse. I don't know, it's so hard to say anything. Why can't we all get along and accept everyone? Damn human kind!

 

Edit: If she did do it for money, then I would not support her. That is for damn sure.

[WAXXX]

it's the difference between biological and psychological reality. where to draw the line? i have no clue. however, i think if she truly identifies as black, then denying her identity would be the same as denying a trans person their identity. 

[Dominic_]

I think it's great that people can do what they want to be happy, but it's a slippery slope, and we need to draw the line somewhere. Where that is, I'm not sure, but this is just getting silly.

[THE_James_Champ]

The whole thing is hilarious, but what I think is funnier is her damn parents BLEW UP HER SPOT. Oh man. But yeah, the situation is kinda fucked.

[Bladewillisisdead]

The "transracial" conversation is insulting to both the trans community and any person of color. Put simply it is a white privilege to even entertain the idea. A black person can't simply say "I truly identify as white" and then magically be free of the oppression they face every day.

Girlfriend and I just put down a deposit on a beautiful 2BR apartment. Pretty fucking excited. Not excited about packing though...that's going to be a nightmare. But her parents offered to hire movers for us, so that's dope.

All my positive vibes going out to Juan's puppy. She'll be fine, dude. It's a routine procedure. Just make sure to pamper and love her while she recovers.

[WAXXX]

A black person can't simply say "I truly identify as white" and then magically be free of the oppression they face every day.

 

a black person can truly identify as white. no, it will not free them from the oppression of others.

[Guest]

Girlfriend and I just put down a deposit on a beautiful 2BR apartment. Pretty fucking excited. Not excited about packing though...that's going to be a nightmare. But her parents offered to hire movers for us, so that's dope.

 

Congrats man!

[futures]

The whole thing is hilarious, but what I think is funnier is her damn parents BLEW UP HER SPOT. Oh man. But yeah, the situation is kinda fucked.

But like... on the other hand, if someone's family did that to a transgendered person, would it be funny? This is where the confusion comes in.

 

a black person can truly identify as white. no, it will not free them from the oppression of others.

This is exactly why it's complicated. Are we not sure simply because it's surrounding an oppressed race or is it something else?

[Dominic_]

But like... on the other hand, if someone's family did that to a transgendered person, would it be funny? This is where the confusion comes in.

 

This is exactly why it's complicated. Are we not sure simply because it's surrounding an oppressed race or is it something else?

I'm damn sure. It doesn't work that way. I look at transgender the same way. You can identify however you want, regardless of how little sense it makes. Doesn't mean I have to identify you that way necessarily. I personally think that a few snips down below doesn't change your gender, but if it makes the person happy, they can do that. Calling them another gender is kind of twisting the definition of the terms. It'd be like me identifying as a male lesbian. Lesbians like women, I like women. The only difference is that I was born a man. All these lesbians who won't date me are just discriminating against my kind, and I won't stand for it. It sounds ridiculous, but that is essentially the argument behind all of this stuff. 

[llamaface]

I don't know how I feel about it. I was just wondering about racial identity's relation to a person's sex vs gender identity. Is it that race is equivalent to sex? I feel like it is. I think the idea of racial identity is something different than race itself... Like in a "be anything you want to be" sort of way. I identify as a Californian, but that could change depending on where I live and how my life changes.

In my opinion, it's not ok to say that you are black if you are, in fact, not black. But if you feel a strong connection to the black community, you support equality and fighting for the civil rights of others, or anything along those lines then that sounds great to me. I don't know what to call that, though.

I wonder how different this conversation would be had it happened prior to Caitlyn Jenner's coming out or if it happened a year from now. Would we still even be trying to compare racial identity to gender identity?

[Dominic_]

I don't know how I feel about it. I was just wondering about racial identity's relation to a person's sex vs gender identity. Is it that race is equivalent to sex? I feel like it is. I think the idea of racial identity is something different than race itself... Like in a "be anything you want to be" sort of way. I identify as a Californian, but that could change depending on where I live and how my life changes.

In my opinion, it's not ok to say that you are black if you are, in fact, not black. But if you feel a strong connection to the black community, you support equality and fighting for the civil rights of others, or anything along those lines then that sounds great to me. I don't know what to call that, though.

I wonder how different this conversation would be had it happened prior to Caitlyn Jenner's coming out or if it happened a year from now. Would we still even be trying to compare racial identity to gender identity?

Yes, I think it'd be great for people to reach out and help each other outside of racial boundaries, but it in no way makes them black anymore than I'm a lesbian. It doesn't need it's own term. You are a person who is reaching out for the greater good. 

[futures]

I'm damn sure. It doesn't work that way. I look at transgender the same way. You can identify however you want, regardless of how little sense it makes. Doesn't mean I have to identify you that way necessarily. I personally think that a few snips down below doesn't change your gender, but if it makes the person happy, they can do that. Calling them another gender is kind of twisting the definition of the terms. It'd be like me identifying as a male lesbian. Lesbians like women, I like women. The only difference is that I was born a man. All these lesbians who won't date me are just discriminating against my kind, and I won't stand for it. It sounds ridiculous, but that is essentially the argument behind all of this stuff. 

You've lost me. I don't think I agree with any of this. It is respectful to identify a transgendered person the way they want to be identified. That's why preferred pronouns are a thing. Also, gender =/= sex.

 

I don't know how I feel about it. I was just wondering about racial identity's relation to a person's sex vs gender identity. Is it that race is equivalent to sex? I feel like it is. I think the idea of racial identity is something different than race itself... Like in a "be anything you want to be" sort of way. I identify as a Californian, but that could change depending on where I live and how my life changes.

In my opinion, it's not ok to say that you are black if you are, in fact, not black. But if you feel a strong connection to the black community, you support equality and fighting for the civil rights of others, or anything along those lines then that sounds great to me. I don't know what to call that, though.

I wonder how different this conversation would be had it happened prior to Caitlyn Jenner's coming out or if it happened a year from now. Would we still even be trying to compare racial identity to gender identity?

I do think that it would be compared.

 

Maybe you're right. Maybe race isn't on the same level as gender. I'm not sure either way, I just want to be respectful of people at all times. I also don't want to be respecting people who are hurting others. Is it possible that someone could feel lost in their skin? I know that transgendered folks don't feel comfortable in their birth-given gender and they don't feel like they are living their true selves. Could this be true with race?

[llamaface]

I'm damn sure. It doesn't work that way. I look at transgender the same way. You can identify however you want, regardless of how little sense it makes. Doesn't mean I have to identify you that way necessarily. I personally think that a few snips down below doesn't change your gender, but if it makes the person happy, they can do that. Calling them another gender is kind of twisting the definition of the terms. It'd be like me identifying as a male lesbian. Lesbians like women, I like women. The only difference is that I was born a man. All these lesbians who won't date me are just discriminating against my kind, and I won't stand for it. It sounds ridiculous, but that is essentially the argument behind all of this stuff.

Your opinion of not having to identify someone as they choose to be identified is disappointing. It seems to be the common opinion, unfortunately. It comes off as disrespectful to think that way, in my opinion.

I've had discussions with a few different people recently about what is normal and why the idea of normality in pretty much everything is harmful to so many people that are cast as abnormal.

[llamaface]

Maybe you're right. Maybe race isn't on the same level as gender. I'm not sure either way, I just want to be respectful of people at all times. I also don't want to be respecting people who are hurting others. Is it possible that someone could feel lost in their skin? I know that transgendered folks don't feel comfortable in their birth-given gender and they don't feel like they are living their true selves. Could this be true with race?

On a less serious note, Steve Martin's character in The Jerk identified as black. He knew no other way and that was ok for everyone involved.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't personally have this situation happening in my life so it's really hard to say what's right.

[Dominic_]

Your opinion of not having to identify someone as they choose to be identified is disappointing. It seems to be the common opinion, unfortunately. It comes off as disrespectful to think that way, in my opinion.

I've had discussions with a few different people recently about what is normal and why the idea of normality in pretty much everything is harmful to so many people that are cast as abnormal.

I will identify someone how they want to be identified if it is logical. Like I said, a few snips here and a few snips there doesn't make someone a different gender *in my opinion. I don't really have as big of an issue with this as I do with the possibilities it opens up. I shouldn't be able to join the BBA because I identify myself as black, and sue for discrimination if they don't treat me as an equal. It opens itself up for too much crazy shit to follow. If it didn't effect other things I wouldn't have an issue

[THE_James_Champ]

I don't agree with you on that Rezqua. A trans* person has the right to be identified how they want, regardless of what you may think. However, I think the transracial thing didn't come from her, but it was said elsewhere. She is white, her parents are white, that makes you white. She SPECIFICALLY went out of her way to deceive people over a course of many years.

 

I am fat, but I can't just say i'm transfat and not be fat. 

 

Race and gender do not work the same way, in my mind. 

[llamaface]

I don't agree with you on that Rezqua. A trans* person has the right to be identified how they want, regardless of what you may think. However, I think the transracial thing didn't come from her, but it was said elsewhere. She is white, her parents are white, that makes you white. She SPECIFICALLY went out of her way to deceive people over a course of many years.

I am fat, but I can't just say i'm transfat and not be fat.

Race and gender do not work the same way, in my mind.

Transfats are bad, James. Everyone agrees on that.

How you feeling today?

[Dominic_]

I don't agree with you on that Rezqua. A trans* person has the right to be identified how they want, regardless of what you may think. However, I think the transracial thing didn't come from her, but it was said elsewhere. She is white, her parents are white, that makes you white. She SPECIFICALLY went out of her way to deceive people over a course of many years.

 

I am fat, but I can't just say i'm transfat and not be fat. 

 

Race and gender do not work the same way, in my mind. 

I think that a transgender person should be able to be identified how they want, but if they are I have a feeling there will be weird legal shit where it follows the same line of thought. I think the intentions are great, and I really want people to be happy, but in practice I don't think it'd work. That's my reasoning, not any kind of discrimination or "wow, that's weird". I think that people should be able to do whatever they want to their body, but for paperwork and legal sake, to prevent any crazy bullshit, they should stay the same gender. They may live however they like, but I really worry that if this is completely done that there will be similar stuff to my male lesbian argument.

[THE_James_Champ]

Transfats are bad, James. Everyone agrees on that.

How you feeling today?

lol. I was hoping someone would get that. And I'm feeling infinitely better today, thanks! Working from home this week has been way easy and has helped my recovery along I think.