Innernet Peace Thread

[almightyseancore]

whys everyone all butthurt?

 

it's not even real life, bros.

 

 

[Guest]

I CHALLENGE RESSE'S TO A PIECE OFF

[jhulud]

I wish for whirled peas. Always.

[BuzzersonKillwell]

Stop making number of posts thread. Jokes over.

 

Casey, understand you're funnier if you exercise some restraint. 

 

Problem solved. 

[almightyseancore]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkiSYmn74os

[Guest]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

 

Edit: screw embedding

[TFP]

That is the problem Sean "the bros" that are soooo funny.

[almightyseancore]

it's not even that, it's like a goddamn full moon in this place.

 

scotts being a dick, kriss is pissed, casey just plain knows better.

 

i like all these guys. seeing them mad is ruining my innernet.

[kriss]

I'm not pissed, per se. I *am* positive that, despite not doing it professionally, I'm a better writer than my adversary (who likely is only where he is today because he plugged away at amateur reviews for years when the internet was still young and every dumb band was glad that SOMEONE was willing to maybe kiss their ass. I get free shit all the time with the menial little things I do here in Chicago with Notes and Bolts - it isn't hard to mooch). I'm willing to do a 'review off' to prove it. Each contendor has to review three albums they are COMPLETELY unfamiliar with - whoever reviews them the most objectively and comes off sounding less like a snot nosed 12 year old boy, wins. Oh, and VC gets to decide what albums.

[Guest]

Sounds awesome.

[yocaseycasey]

Hanson - Middle of Nowhere

[kriss]

^ done! And while we're at it, let's have an 'interview off'. Seeing as how my questions don't sound like a 14 year old freshman girl doing an internship for 17 Magazine, I'm fairly sure I may come off pretty well with that, too. That I can start off the beginning of an article without injecting my own personal life story into why I love whatever it is I'm covering should also help. Objectivity in journalism versus personal blogging? There's a difference, you say? I mean, really? 'Where is the Gold copy of yr album hanging?' (http://www.altpress.com/contributors/entry/im_ready_lets_do_it_baby) - I interview half a dozen bands a week and have to keep them engaged and not bored for Notes and Bolts. That N+B is practically NOTHING in stature compared to AP (because, you know, I like to keep it all Dischord like and focus on shit here in Chicago instead of bands who you can only see at one of the many House of Blues venues across the nation) makes that illegitimate, though, right? BRING IT.

 

 

oh, and Sean? Forget yr 'peace'! This is the internet! (Thanks for liking the picture of the new Pink Frost 7" on Facebook yesterday. We're really excited about them - just have to cut the sleeves and get them ready for the release show on the 26th)

[ifworkpermits]

Hanson - Middle of Nowhere

 

I'm loving all of the Hanson references... keep them going... how about each person has to review all of the Hanson albums in chronological order? =]

 

Just Kidding, though I do love me some Hanson.

[daegor]

it's not even that, it's like a goddamn full moon in this place.

 

scotts being a dick, kriss is pissed, casey just plain knows better.

 

i like all these guys. seeing them mad is ruining my innernet.

 

 

It's Yin Yang shit, the universe has to balance all the positive energy from all these people raffling records for charity/giving them away

[BuzzersonKillwell]

 That N+B is practically NOTHING compared to AP makes that illegitimate, though, right?

 

Now there is a debate I can get behind. With size comes reach, and inevitably, impact. I don't think illegitimate is the right word, but maybe irrelevant? If your content is higher quality, but ultimately has less impact, how do you define the value of it, relative to AP?

 

Does AP have a business imperative to cater to a audience base that isn't interested in the level of insight you might bring? And if so, can you judge the value of his work solely on creative merit? 

 

Discuss. 

[jerseydave77]

I am often astounded at how lousy interviews in the music world are Kriss but most publications are catering to advertisers. The same labels these bands come off of are buying full pages each month and that has to impact the direction of the questioning in a magazine that isn't at all intended to be hard-hitting journalism as opposed to entertainment and exposure. 

 

There are different techniques for all genres. As someone that writes a lot of interviews for a living I am not into the old "Meet The Band" technique but it probably appeals to more of their readership than say one of my documentary interviews will. Maybe this is "underselling one's audience" but I think it is probably closer to a case of "knowing one's audience."

[kriss]

Now there is a debate I can get behind. With size comes reach, and inevitably, impact. I don't think illegitimate is the right word, but maybe irrelevant? If your content is higher quality, but ultimately has less impact, how do you define the value of it, relative to AP?

 

Does AP have a business imperative to cater to a audience base that isn't interested in the level of insight you might bring? And if so, can you judge the value of his work solely on creative merit? 

 

Discuss. 

 

I would compare it to grass fed beef versus factory farmed meat sourced by McDonald's. Value as a term is a largely myopic one - what's valuable here in Chicago - I do an in depth interview with a local shoegaze band - may not be of value outside of the city to those other than who are into that niche of music. An interview such as the one I did with Eli from The Smoking Popes, however, may have potentially more reach. N+B releases vinyl and tapes and does podcasts and zines. Our budget is based off of a small group of people doing what we love. AP is built off of countless advertiser dollars that ALL have a say in what the magazine does. One has full autonomy and the other doesn't. When put in that context, if the first is considered irrelevant next to the second, then I hope we're forever irrelevant.

 

In short, AP and magazines of its size have no imperative whatsoever to do so, re: assuming their readership has the intelligence for things more indepth as opposed to being shallowly pandered to in the way they are now with fleeting things like band gossip and lineup changes. As Dave just mentioned below you, publications of this size are 'catering to advertisers'. Depth, in this case, is often glossed over for the sake of vanity articles and often eschew anything of substance for the sake of disposable factoids that the readership can discuss amongst themselves at a later point ("Oh, man! Travis Barker's favorite skateboard!..." and so on).

 

While I don't judge his work solely off of its subject matter, I *do* judge it off of repetitive motif. Go to his profile page on AP right now. Out of the seven articles in the log, FIVE of them - in the FIRST sentence - are him over enthusiastically expressing his love for the subject matter and/or how they mean something to his personal evolution.

 

Now as a reader, am I reading this article about _______ or am I reading about the writer? I would wager the first. The point of journalism, of any kind, no matter how shallow, is to avoid the injection of PERSONAL anecdote into the content, so that the reader can be cued into the matter at hand, which, should hopefully be the subject of the article itself. That he makes a habit of this on a repeat basis is laughable and makes him look like a run of the mill blogger more than someone who has done all of the wonderful things he wastes no amount of digital ink bragging about in his editor profile. 

 

So the question now becomes - why does it matter? This isn't CNN. This isn't the BBC. This isn't even Wired Magazine or Gastronomica. It's a 'punk' (and I use the word very loosely - not due to sound in the least, but more due to the advertising dollars, corporate backing and all manner of other contradictory practice) publication, so who cares if it's got some sloppily written parts, right? I do. Why? Because if I'm going to pay however much monthly for your publication, I expect to see you writing on a higher level of proficiency than my dude bro friend next door who just got the new Blink 182 record. In the 90's, AP were covering more than bland pop punk - the Beastie Boys, Marilyn Manson, various others in what is now considered fairly essential 'alternative' music of that period. AP follows trends - what better way to keep the blood hot than to inject its staff with fanboys who drool over Green Day like the first day they saw 'Basket Case' on the television. Nevermind that their writing skills don't match their energy. There are countless zines, magazines, and blogs out there where the staffers are given the opportunity to get free swag and see free shows; heck, *I* barely ever pay to get into a show - the only difference between them and Heisel is that he was in the right place at the right time to get paid for it. 

 

Am I going after Heisel for fun? Not really. Am I sore at his ungratefulness at my gift despite my genuine attempt to gag him while giving him what I thought were genuinely good records? Yes. Was he pissed that I jokingly said I 'kinda hated him' while leaving red pepper flakes strewn in? Definitely. I think he was probably more so pissed that he'd never heard of three fourths of the bands the package was made up of, which, in essence, cheapened the excitement he'd held that the package would be full of stuff that he ALREADY knew. There's an argument in here somewhere about how I genuinely believe folks thumb their nose down at the obscure - atleast until it no longer is - versus what is already known. If Tear It Up had been opening for Crime In Stereo and held releases on Bridge 9 or whatever other trendy label this board seems to enjoy so much, maybe his tune would have been different. My challenge still stands. Never trust a skinny chef. Never trust a music writer who won't go outside of their shell into genres unknown.

 

and I promise I won't bore you with 700 words out of 1,000 talking about how 'Middle of Nowhere' was the preferred album of choice for my girl crush in the 6th grade.

[jerseydave77]

I do think you are injecting a few too many pointed insults into some otherwise reasonable points Kriss. I guess this is more personal than professional. I suppose seeing you challenge someone to a review-off or whatever should have been a dead giveaway. I prefer to stay out of this stuff and will at this point. Not sure why I chimed in to begin with. 

[kforkevin777]

I had no idea that there was a Kris's vs Scott battle going on until I read this thread. That makes me a little sad. Kriss and Scott are both awesome dudes in my opinion. I read AP, but I don't usually read it for interviews, I usually read it because they have a lot of tour and release info. AP covers a ton of my favorite band, but at the same time, they cover an even bigger numbers of bands I loathe. Scott basically has my dream job. Althouhht I'm going off of very little knowledge of his actual work, and I mainly say that because I hope to write for a music magazine that covers music I like one day. Kriss is a rad dude, and I have a lot of respect for what he does with N&B, but I'm biased against it because I don't like that type of music, al all. Not saying I wouldn't enjoy doing something like that, because I enjoy and respect musicians of (almost) all genres, but just last night, Scott got to (kinda) interview my all-time favorite band, and one of my other favorites. I don't know why this fight came up, but I do wish it would get resolved. As a novice writer who hopes to one day work in music journalism, it's saddening.

[kriss]

Dave, I went back and read over and cleaned it up. I *would* like to stay objective. We all are adults, here, after all.

 

Kevin, there is no battle. Scott got beef with me over the Secret Santa gift I gave him and told me to go fuck myself. I responded in kind and was met with further accusation, at which point, I gave up being reasonable. Should I have stayed reasonable? Of course. Why didn't I? Because I find Scott to be, amongst many things, too big for his britches. He believes, that because he has one of the highest post counts on this board, and writes for a magazine enjoyed by a good portion of this board's users, that he has some level of quantifiable entitlement to be here over others. In the past, he has exerted this entitlement over me, and I've let it roll during those times, despite not forgetting. Ask most anyone on this board and they'll tell you, I'm not an unreasonable guy and I'm NOT a fan of grudges. That I'm saying all of this in THIS thread is a direct response to Sean's joking lament that everyone on these boards needs to calm down. 

 

At the end of the day, it's the internet. When I log off this site, I don't think about it. I doubt Scott does either. When he's on, I doubt he's thinking about it much then, as well. My 'challenge' is largely in jest. If he wants to be cool, I'm down with being cool. But one simply does not have time to be cool with every little peon, do they? 

[Guest]

WHAT IS ALL THIS INTELLIGENT DEBATE?!

[kforkevin777]

Oh wow. I stopped keeping up with the SS thread once I got my gift, and Madie got hers from me. I never saw any of that. I do know you're a super chill guy, and until now, I've never known Scott not to be. I'm not gonna take sides with anyone, or get more into than I have. Hopefully it all settles down.

[kriss]

give it a day. it's the internet. just like southern weather.

[almightyseancore]

i intend on buying one of those pink frost 7"s whenever they're ready. i like supporting your shenanigans.

[kriss]

It's appreciated! (though, you should still pick up a copy of the Chandeliers 7", too! We still have some copies of the aqua green left over). We're joining up with BLVD Records (another Chicago label) to do PF's new full length that they just finished recording at Steve Albini's studio. Pretty exciting! Also, we've got a flexi series that we're starting to unroll - one every other other month starting with one next month by Panda Riot who do gloriously gorgeous My Bloody Valentine-esque shoegaze. The song on the flexi has been in my iTunes top 10 for weeks now! and hey, here's a track off of their upcoming album - http://www.soundsbetterwithreverb.com/shoegaze/panda-riot-black-pyramids/