Beginner’s Guide to Turntables & Hi–Fi *READ 1st PAGE BEFORE POSTING NEW THREADS / BASIC QUESTIONS*

[allenh]

Ok so with a technics sa120 receiver, it would be an improvement to add a preamp in the 150 dollar range and connect in the line out correct? Or would it only be negligible until I eliminate the technic entirely with a preamp and power amp. Therefore should I not even bother until I can get the preamp and power amp? Of the 150 range on the list in this topic which would you say is the best?

 

its either end of the audio chain that make the most noticeable changes when you are moving up the food chain so cartridge, speakers and turntable and then phono stage, pre amp then power amp, turntable and amplifier changes tend to be more subtle unless it's a very big step change in quality level but speakers and cartridges in the same price bracket can be vastly different.

[allenh]

Same thing happened to me when I listened to The Wall on vinyl for the first time, as well as Isis - Wavering Radiant and Opeth's Deliverance album.

Unreal what vinyl can bring out. So weird.

 

Try a really good quality cassette deck and tape your CD's, you won't get the same result as vinyl because it's a different master but there is a marked difference in the way the taped recording sounds over the CD

[x54badfish46x]

its either end of the audio chain that make the most noticeable changes when you are moving up the food chain so cartridge, speakers and turntable and then phono stage, pre amp then power amp, turntable and amplifier changes tend to be more subtle unless it's a very big step change in quality level but speakers and cartridges in the same price bracket can be vastly different.

Thanks, i was beginning to suspect add much, when i got this table there was a huge jump, and the speakers made another leap, the middle chain i do suspect of being more nuanced, so i will most likely just shoot for a nice, for my budget, set of headphones.

The wall is on my short list of future purchases, but I'm struggling to find a quality pressing, another joy of vinyl, making sure your pressing is going to be up to the level a vinyl could be, and not just a waste of time.

[Gumbo72203]

Try a really good quality cassette deck and tape your CD's, you won't get the same result as vinyl because it's a different master but there is a marked difference in the way the taped recording sounds over the CD

Yeah, I used to listen to cassettes a ton when I was still reallllly into metal and buying lots of underground releases.

Some stuff I have, like Throneaeon's "Carnage" demo sounds just AMAZING on tape. Such a juicy, warm, and lush compression.

Vinyl is different... it's still warm, but its more dimensional to me. More like you're right there in the room with the music as it was being played (if it was recorded/mastered properly).

Some albums I'm finding don't benefit from a vinyl release because the mastering was done so flat, that none of the instruments have any real separation or spatial qualities to them.

[Gumbo72203]

Stanton like a lot of DJ table manufacturers make good and bad tables.

 

The bad news is the T62 is bad.

 

 

Sad to say it but this is true which alone wouldn't be it's biggest problem. The main problem is that it has a straight arm with a straight headshell, your cartridge should intersect with the record at 18 degrees which is why there are S shaped arms or straight arms with the headshell angled in at 18 degrees.

 

This sort of table is designed primarily for DJ use for cueing and scratching and not listening as they can never track accurately and the worst side effect of this is premature record wear, they are not as bad as a badly weighted Crosley or something like that but they do tend to make your cartridge go at a funny angle and over time wear the walls of the grooves on your records on one side and because of the cheap tonearm this is worse than on a decent DJ table with nice arm bearings.

 

KAB who are an authority on the daddy of the DJ table the Technics SL1200 wrote a very good article on it to try and stop people buying this sort of table when they didn't understand what they were buying.

 

https://www.kabusa.com/str8_doc.htm

 

I expect you were happier when you didn't know.

Thanks for the info, but the cartridge head on the Stanton actually is angled. It's done in kind of a weird way, with a straight casing that has 2 open slots where 2 screws hold the head, and you angle the head by staggering the placement of the screws (kind of hard to explain).

Will getting a better turntable result in a sound improvement at all then?

[allenh]

Thanks for the info, but the cartridge head on the Stanton actually is angled. It's done in kind of a weird way, with a straight casing that has 2 open slots where 2 screws hold the head, and you angle the head by staggering the placement of the screws (kind of hard to explain).

Will getting a better turntable result in a sound improvement at all then?

 

That's the same as pretty much every removable bayonet fitting headshell which is every DJ deck made and a hell of a lot of hifi ones since the 60's, the problem is it's meant to go on an S shaped tonearm to give you the 18 degrees, yes you can angle it a bit which is to allow a bit of tolerance on an S shaped arm as not all cartridge/arm combinations can give you spot on tracking at the correct needle overhang but with a straight arm it will always be out somewhere across the tracking arc because you won't get the correct tracking angle at the right overhang.

 

The irony with these straight arm DJ decks is that they copy the correct arm geometry for an S shaped arm on an SL1200 and then cock it up with a straight one, even Technics offered straight arm wands for the SL1200 and they should really know better but if the market thinks that's what it wants they're not going to miss out on a sale, sometimes Customers need saving from themselves though.

 

Someone has made a proper angled headshells for these straight arm decks as you see them on the ones marketed as Lenco for hifi use but I haven't seen the headshell for sale separately sadly as that would fix the problem instantly

 

Edit missed the last bit

 

Getting a sound improvement from a better turntable depends on what the rest of your system is, in truth yes you should hear an improvement like less inner groove distortion but how much improvement does depend on what your amp and speakers are and how it is all set up, a shit system well set up can sound better than an expensive one badly set up

[Gumbo72203]

Edit missed the last bit

 

Getting a sound improvement from a better turntable depends on what the rest of your system is, in truth yes you should hear an improvement like less inner groove distortion but how much improvement does depend on what your amp and speakers are and how it is all set up, a shit system well set up can sound better than an expensive one badly set up

So.... would that reduce surface noise then?

Because some records I have, I put them on... the needle goes into the groove, and it's dead silent.

Others, its just noisy... kind of like static, almost a white general noise kind of thing.

I thought I would have to fix that by cleaning the records, but if that's being produced because my needle is pushing against the outside of a groove then I'll get a new turntable.

But wouldn't that manifest itself on EVERY record?

[allenh]

So.... would that reduce surface noise then?

Because some records I have, I put them on... the needle goes into the groove, and it's dead silent.

Others, its just noisy... kind of like static, almost a white general noise kind of thing.

I thought I would have to fix that by cleaning the records, but if that's being produced because my needle is pushing against the outside of a groove then I'll get a new turntable.

But wouldn't that manifest itself on EVERY record?

 

I would have to hear it really and yes you would expect every record to do it if it were just down to the turntable but is this something the records have started to do after while or have they done it from new? And is it there all the way through a complete side?

 

Could be bad pressings, could be dirty records, could be you've worn the records, could be a bad stylus, could be a bad tracking, could be any number of things.

 

Do you have a friend with a better system? if so try some of the records on theirs both good and bad and that will help to isolate where it's coming from, if it's exactly the same with the bad ones then it could be bad pressings, or dirt or wear but if it's not there at all then it's turntable related and possibly a bad stylus or bad tracking.

 

If it were me I'd start by trying to get one of the angled headshells though so you can at least get the tracking right before you go any further and it should be cheaper than buying a new turntable

[Gumbo72203]

Word yeah maybe that's what I'll do.

Some of the records have done it right from the get-go, like my copy of Gates - You Are All You Have Left To Fear.

That one especially you can detect the noise all throughout the record, just below the surface of the music.

Maybe I'll take a video to upload to show you what i mean. Its just like a hollow noise... which I'm guessing just means the records are dirty and need to be cleaned.

[allenh]

That sounds like a bad pressing if it's always been there and is there all the way through, it could be dirt but more likely a bad pressing if you bought it new or wear if you bought it used. You could try the wood glue solution, that would soon prove if it was dirt and it would be super clean after that.

 

The problem is you probably have a combination of things going on and you can usually clear a lot of problems up with the usual things like clean and static free records on a correctly set up turntable, if you eliminate the obvious you are left with the rest of the usual culprits like bad pressings and if it's one or two records or a bad stylus if it's all of them.

[BigSeth]

Okay I think I have it figured out but I wanted to be sure before I go ahead and buy. I'm starting a headphone setup because I've moved into a new apartment with some elderly neighbors and I'd rather not be a dick and bother them with loud music all the time. I have a Debut Carbon, and a Yamaha AS-500 Intergrated amp. All I need to have a headphone setup is a headphone amp and some cans, correct? Assuming that is correct, I have some options in mind that I'd appreciate your guys' opinion on:

 

I'm thinkin a Schiit Magni 2 or a JDS Labs Objective 2 Headphone amp. As far as headphones I'm thinking Grado sr60 or 80e's unless someone could persuade or point me in another direction. 

 

As always, thank you to the more knowledgeable lot of VC that help n00bz like me

[mesi]

Okay I think I have it figured out but I wanted to be sure before I go ahead and buy. I'm starting a headphone setup because I've moved into a new apartment with some elderly neighbors and I'd rather not be a dick and bother them with loud music all the time. I have a Debut Carbon, and a Yamaha AS-500 Intergrated amp. All I need to have a headphone setup is a headphone amp and some cans, correct? Assuming that is correct, I have some options in mind that I'd appreciate your guys' opinion on:

 

I'm thinkin a Schiit Magni 2 or a JDS Labs Objective 2 Headphone amp. As far as headphones I'm thinking Grado sr60 or 80e's unless someone could persuade or point me in another direction. 

 

As always, thank you to the more knowledgeable lot of VC that help n00bz like me

You don't need a headphone amp, your Yamaha amp will power your headphones just fine.

[slinch]

Yeah, spend more on the cans instead.

[BigSeth]

Well that's great news. So I just plug the headphones in and I'm good to go? Sweet.

 

Now that I can up the headphone budget, do any of you have experience with a certain pair that you could recommend? I know it will all come down to me and me tastes but I really do value your guys' opinion.  

[aviolentworld]

You don't need a headphone amp, your Yamaha amp will power your headphones just fine.

Is this the case for his specific amp? Or do most integrated amps power all headphones?

[Sidney Crosley]

My advice is go Grado. I have some SR125 cans and I just absolutely love them. Have listened to a whole bunch of others but I just find their sound is so warm and detailed. But just be warned - they bleed a ton of sound, and you can hear a lot of external noise. Not worth it if you plan on sitting right beside the fridge or you live atop a dance studio.

[Tardcore]

Buy my AKG Q701s.

[BigSeth]

Thanks for the responses! I'll definitely check out the 125e's. Tardcore, how much are you selling them for? How come you're letting them go? What is your opinion on them?

 

My advice is go Grado. I have some SR125 cans and I just absolutely love them. Have listened to a whole bunch of others but I just find their sound is so warm and detailed. But just be warned - they bleed a ton of sound, and you can hear a lot of external noise. Not worth it if you plan on sitting right beside the fridge or you live atop a dance studio.

 

 

Buy my AKG Q701s.

[Tardcore]

Tardcore, how much are you selling them for? How come you're letting them go? What is your opinion on them?

 

Idunno, $135 shipped?  I have no real problem with them.  I have the Q701s, a pair of AKG K7xx (very similar), and Hifiman HE-400s and don't need 3 pairs.  

 

The Q701s are the white version with green cable.  The longer cable is new in the package and the shorter cable is a bit dingy from dragging on the ground etc and has been rolled over a few times with the desk chair but is perfectly functional.  They're usually described as being a tad on the bass light side, but I find them to simply be more honest than most headphones that artificially beef up bass.  I have a Schiit Vali but have also driven them from my integrated with no issues.   I only need the headphone amp for the HE-400s.

[mesi]

Is this the case for his specific amp? Or do most integrated amps power all headphones?

Most do, if not all.

[allenh]

Is this the case for his specific amp? Or do most integrated amps power all headphones?

 

Most do, if not all.

 

As do a lot of CD players, most cassette decks, reel to reel decks, DJ mixers etc. etc. basically if it has a headphone socket it will drive the vast majority of headphones. The only exception to this are things like electrostatic headphones that need a separate drive unit between them and the headphone amp but these are a pretty rare and expensive things.

[Guest]

I know next to nothing about vintage tables, but have been eyeing a Pioneer PL-512 for a bit. It's $85, is that too much? It appears to have a recent AT95e cart on it, and I'd probably replace the belt right away. Worth that price if I can't talk them down?

[allenh]

I know next to nothing about vintage tables, but have been eyeing a Pioneer PL-512 for a bit. It's $85, is that too much? It appears to have a recent AT95e cart on it, and I'd probably replace the belt right away. Worth that price if I can't talk them down?

 

If it's this one

 

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/pioneer/pl-512.shtml

 

Then that sounds a bit high to me but probably about the going rate now but what sort of condition is it in?

[Guest]

Dust cover is yellowed, but the plinth just looks dusty/dirty.

[allenh]

Dirt you can clean and usually even the yellowing you can polish out.

 

I'd want to get nearer to $40 maybe $50 for it but it depends where you are buying it from and how much competition the seller has, if it's a store or some sort of dealer then a bit higher because you have some come back with it.

 

I'm tight when it comes to this stuff but if there's nothing else about for a better price and you like it then you haven't got a whole lot of bargaining room, take some cash offer the seller less but be prepared to get closer to the asking price if you like it. Worst case you pay the full $85 for it.