Looming Federal Government Shutdown

[jase]

Just goes back to us all being $60k in debt. Would you give an extra 10k out of your paycheck the next 5 years to keep the ACA and bring us back to a normal amount of debt?

Or stop spending a billion a day in a country America invaded, in a war you can't ever win.

But I guess each person could give up 10k per year. That'd make more sense

[BuzzersonKillwell]

They should't be trying to defund anything this way. It is reckless, spiteful and will cost us all money. 

 

I don't understand the debt argument regarding the ACA? I was under the impression that  no one really knows what it will cost in the long run. Don't the current estimates show it reducing the deficit over the duration of the law?

[thebiglebowski]

Or stop spending a billion a day in a country America invaded, in a war you can't ever win.

But I guess each person could give up 10k per year. That'd make more sense

 

Sure, I agree. It wasn't a realistic question. Just stretching things to make my point.

 

 

They should't be trying to defund anything this way. It is reckless, spiteful and will cost us all money. 

 

I don't understand the debt argument regarding the ACA? I was under the impression that  no one really knows what it will cost in the long run. Don't the current estimates show it reducing the deficit over the duration of the law?

 

CBO says $600 billion in expenditures and $800 billion in income. So the budget argument is along the lines of if we are going to levy all these taxes (on the wealthy, insurance providers, medical device producers, and tanning salons lol) let's put a way bigger percentage of that 800 billion into paying debts we have already incurred (and avoid paying compound interest by letting our giant debt linger indefinitely). 

 

I'm fine with spending the $600 billion to improve health care are if we can figure out some other place to let it go (as mentioned above...but need to end the war in Afghanistan carefully and smartly). 

 

 

It's not like the democrats pulled obamacare out of nowhere and are surprising everyone with it this week. It passed over three years ago. It's the republicans that are connecting obamacare to this budget issue because it's current. Those debates should have already happened. There's plenty of other things they could have chosen to try to "defund".

 

Correct me if I am wrong but the president is supposed to propose a budget, congress modifies it and sends it back, then he approves/vetos, right? It's only because they haven't been able to really follow that process for years (just passing continuing resolutions) that we are here. So they need to come to a consensus on the budget. That's the issue. The Supreme Court can uphold the Constitutionality of the bill, but that is a far cry from saying it has to be paid for. They don't control the purse.

[atticus]

I don't see how you can treat it like an independent issue. Not like gun control or abortion or anything, which have very minor budgetary considerations and are more philosophical.

 

Congress and the President are supposed to work together on a budget. So looking at the big picture, if the ACA is going to eat up a slice of the overall budgetary pie, what are the ripple effects on other government spending? Where have the Democrats given in in any significant way to cut government spending and make the ACA more palatable?

 

No one is working with anyone. That's the problem.

 

It's an easy snipe on the republican house but for lack of a better term they are holding the government hostage. House republicans could have agreed to a clean budget bill with democratic and even presidential guarantees that reform talks would happen and fat would be cut from the ACA. That way the government remains open to serve the people it represents AND IF reform talks don't happen congressional democrats and the president lose credibility. I agree that government spending needs to be addressed. New spending should take a backseat to tax AND welfare reform. These two systems are essential pillars of the way the United States functions. But they are broken. They are easily manipulated by both ends of the spectrum. The rich find tax loopholes that can be exploited so that they don't make (what the people of the united states deem to be) a fair contribution and the poor exploit the bloated and laughably lenient welfare system.

 

All the while instead of doing something, ANYTHING, our elected representatives choose to name-call, assign blame, and try to coin the next "gotcha" sound byte that will get them headlines. Honestly it is more like gamesmanship than governance, malicious even, a race to out crazy the next nut-job without regard for the millions of constituents their actions are affecting.

 

As I have stated in previous posts, I think that with the right amount of teamwork the ACA could actually work and help a lot of people. Am I happy with it in its current state? No, but it has been on multiple ballots and referendums, served as arguably THE cornerstone of the last presidential election, and here we are. It's time to move on and construct rather than destruct. The republican party is trying to stick to this worn out model of rank-and-file obedience to party lines, but the party lines are being set by the wackos in the tea party, crying foul on any republican who doesn't stick to the tea party agenda and ostracizing them as party traitors. Its insane. Its damaging our government. It needs to be dealt with. I have to believe this is just a fad that will die out once people get tired of spiteful meanness. I have to believe in a nation that won't stand for having its government held hostage. I have to believe in an educated public that calls for sanity, progress, and most of all justice. Because if I can't believe in that, I can't believe in America, and that is something I absolutely refuse to accept. 

[thebiglebowski]

No one is working with anyone. That's the problem.

 

It's an easy snipe on the republican house but for lack of a better term they are holding the government hostage. House republicans could have agreed to a clean budget bill with democratic and even presidential guarantees that reform talks would happen and fat would be cut from the ACA. That way the government remains open to serve the people it represents AND IF reform talks don't happen congressional democrats and the president lose credibility. I agree that government spending needs to be addressed. New spending should take a backseat to tax AND welfare reform. These two systems are essential pillars of the way the United States functions. But they are broken. They are easily manipulated by both ends of the spectrum. The rich find tax loopholes that can be exploited so that they don't make (what the people of the united states deem to be) a fair contribution and the poor exploit the bloated and laughably lenient welfare system.

 

 

I just want them to fix shit now. The budget cuts we are enduring right now were never meant to be in effect. The "supercongress" put them there to be so damaging that the parties would have to come together. They didn't. Every time we are about to bust through the debt ceiling they raise it with the intention of figuring it out later. Nothing ever happens when they agree to work it out later.

 

I'd gladly take a 1 month shutdown (and I'm a furloughed government employee) if it forced them to come to an agreement now. That's why I'm not crucifying the Republicans for taking their stand (even though I hate the Tea Party in just about every regard).

 

We default on our debt and it is a over for our way of life. The financial system is built on the idea that US government debt unfailing.

[thebiglebowski]

Said my points. Taking a back seat. Don't want to be one dude arguing against what everyone else believes. Someone else can be the voice of the sane Republican.

[BuzzersonKillwell]

Ah man. Don't do that. You need two sides to debate! I don't affiliate with either party, and would potentially lean right on occasion if they drop the social issues.

I was not trying to pile on per se. I'm at a bar now so I can't even wade through the posts since then.

[kylekrische]

Wait a second, your entire government shut down because Republicans don't want to give everyone access to Healthcare? Whoa. You guys are fucked. 

[futures]

Canada has spoken.

[Emo Revival]

Canada has spoken.

 

We can't really talk much though as their is a huge fight in Quebec about the size of religious ornamentation you are allowed to display, so we don't exactly have everything figured out either.

[Emo Revival]

Also this shut down is really bumming me out as it closed the national park next to my apartment (Valley Forge) which I go to like twice a week.

[booyahachieved]

Wait a second, your entire government shut down because Republicans don't want to give everyone access to Healthcare? Whoa. You guys are f***ed. 

 

Gee, when you put it that way it sounds kind of ridiculous doesn't it?

[booyahachieved]

Also this shut down is really bumming me out as it closed the national park next to my apartment (Valley Forge) which I go to like twice a week.

 

Is there any way to sneak in?  If it's closed maybe the park rangers won't even be working and no one will notice

[Guest]

kylekrische, on 02 Oct 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Wait a second, your entire government shut down because Republicans don't want to give everyone access to Healthcare? Whoa. You guys are f***ed. 

 

Gee, when you put it that way it sounds kind of ridiculous doesn't it?

 

Does the board censor things when you quote, or did you do that? Crazy if the former is the case.

[Guest]

Also, everyone is surprised by this? Our government has been fucked for years.

[Emo Revival]

Is there any way to sneak in?  If it's closed maybe the park rangers won't even be working and no one will notice

 

Yeah there is, its just more of a pain in the ass.

[abovetheearth]

our commissary is shut down. really?

 

also, does this effect WIC funding?

[BuzzersonKillwell]

I think WIC is only funded until the end of the week, then it is over until the government resumes. 

 

Or so I read.

[Guest]

my friend with a kid said right now they are operating as usual and will be for about 9 days. After that, WIC will be shut down until congress can get it together.

 

not sure how trustworthy that source is but apparently she called DHS

[abovetheearth]

if WIC gets shut down, that is some fucked up shit.

[jtcohenour]

My wife and I hit our on base commissary yesterday as it will be closed indefinitely starting today.  Today was also my first time at work since the shutdown (I'm active duty Air Force) and its like a ghost town at work.

[abovetheearth]

thank god the PX is still open. (i mean that, not sarcastically)

[Guest]

[bigbruise]

thank god the PX is still open. (i mean that, not sarcastically)

 

haha, the fucking PX. 

[dreamover]

Pretty well said:

 

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/10/1/reporting-governmentshutdowndemocracy.html