slinch Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 So I just scored a test press on ebay, but as I usually do (for some weird reason) I checked the bidding history to see how much less it would sell for if I didn't bid on it. I clicked on the second highest bidder and saw that they have 12 bids in the last 30 days, 100% of them with this same seller. So I decided to go through all of their active and ended auctions with any bids on them. Out of 23 auctions in total, that same account bid on 19 of them (also winning quite a few of the low ones, yet not a single feedback was left from or for that account). I scored the record for $100, if it wasn't for that (what I believe is a shill) account, it would have ended for $50. Obviously I was prepared to pay the $100 since I bid that amount, but kind of feel a bit shitty about it now, knowing the actual demand is much lower and I could have probably gotten it for far less by waiting for the inevitable second chance offer. Here's the link to the seller, if anyone feels like wasting time you can check the bidding pattern out for yourself (the shill acc. ins r***n with a feedback score of 109) : http://www.ebay.com/sch/portofsoundrecordshoppe/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= Any advice on what to do, anyone went through a similar situation before? I feel like sending them a message that I don't really feel it's a fair business practice, but on the other hand don't want to miss out on the record since it doesn't really pop up that often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Report to eBay once the record is in your hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museummouth Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 This happens all the time and it sucks but there's nothing much you can do about it except take the risk of not winning the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Report to eBay once the record is in your hands Can any good come of this? I don't really think of myself as a vindictive person, but it would be cool to know that ebay at least has a way to prevent them from doing that in the future, yet I feel the "report to ebay" function has little to no effect. Also, it seems they run an actual record store: http://www.portofsoundrecords.com/Home.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erthan Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 It's a pretty scummy thing to do but I don't know how much eBay actually cares. Higher ending price = more money in their pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalatapes Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 It's a pretty scummy thing to do but I don't know how much eBay actually cares. Higher ending price = more money in their pocket. Shill bidding is illegal, they will care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalatapes Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 where is the shill account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 It's this one: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=221566202808&aid=r***n&eu=&bidtid=1448122376012&view=NONE&ssPageName=PageBidderProfileViewBids_None_ViewLink with bids on almost all of that seller's auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedshabazz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 that sucks. how can they track it to verify its shill bidding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of Breath Records Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Holy shit Port of Sound is about 15 minutes away from me, want me to go start beef with the owner for you? kamalatapes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shitty Rambo Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You felt the record was worth the price you bid- however this seller manipulated the auction. If it were me I'd suck up the loss of the record, report his ass, and not give that snake a penny. On the other hand, if the record was worth the cost to you and you want it in your collection then suck it up and report it after you have the item in hand. You probably won't get any residuals but you'll get this dude into hot water and hopefully he can't do it to anyone else. kamalatapes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfiend Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Oh man that sucks, I've had this happen to me before, but I couldn't fully prove that it was shill bidding, 99%sure though. It's really lame. I think this actually happens more than you would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalatapes Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Take screen shots, of everything you want to use as evidence. Call ebay customer service http://ocsnext.ebay.com/ocs/cusr?query=1481 AND http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html Just make sure to ask for a "representative" if you get an automated message.Keep in mind you don't know 100% if it's a shilling bid. It's possible the person with 109 is actually trying to win a bid. A good general rule of thumb is to put your max bid down all at once as well. Because if a seller see's one initial bid, then another bid that isn't new but instead added by the original bidder, that's when shilling is easier to implore because naturally, they know a buyer put 2 bids in and they can bump it. The risk you take is that you might not get the item if you accuse the seller. However if you do get the record in hand and then ask ebay to investigate and you tell them about the original 50$ price tag you should have won it at they may refund. Just be adamant in your stance and tell them you believe you should be refunded 100% if they find they are shilling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalatapes Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Oh man that sucks, I've had this happen to me before, but I couldn't fully prove that it was shill bidding, 99%sure though. It's really lame. I think this actually happens more than you would think. The kicker is they could be having a friend ramping up the bids which isn't illegal since that person is considered a whole new customer that is creating their own monetary contract with said seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfiend Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I think that's how most people do it. Just get your brother/sister/friend/partner whatever to bid from their account. It's still the same thing though, it's like bartering, but the seller has all the leverage. Rather than getting the seller to sell at the lowest price they are willing to let it go for, your paying the maximum price your willing to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of Breath Records Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 For real though, I can call of Port of Sound and if you're 100% sure they're shill bidding I'll give them an angry phone call, their record selection sucks anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monklover Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 For real though, I can call of Port of Sound and if you're 100% sure they're shill bidding I'll give them an angry phone call, their record selection sucks anyways. i would do that. also, I would just immediately leave negative feedback saying they were shill bidding. granted I would have to be very sure of it, and this does seem to be a strong case for them shill bidding based on what you found. maybe you take a chance of them returning a negative (i haven't ebayed in awhile, but seem to have read rule changes on what buyer/sellers can leave for feedback), but I'd probably still do it. I won a copy of a record for VERY cheap (a $60+ record for $8) a while back, and the person never replied or sent the record for months. a week later another account with next to no feedback had the record up for sale from the same location, and granted I didn't have exact proof it was the same, after a few weeks when both auctions where over and no record/no contact, I left negative feedback saying they re-auctioned it because it sold so low. They didn't ding me back, but replied to my negative on their feedback page saying basically 'prove it'. I did receive the record almost 2 months later after leaving the feedback. It was all kind of weird, but my point is, I felt scammed, so I left the negative anyway. In the end I suspect they eventually found another copy and sent it to me... I think you've been scammed, and should do the same... of course also contact ebay... or maybe even contact ebay first. But paying double for something because of shill bidding, is not something to roll over for just because you were willing to put that high of a bid in. ....the mischievous part of me wants to see record store contacted directly ;p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 how about we all contact the store... kamalatapes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalatapes Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 i would do that. also, I would just immediately leave negative feedback saying they were shill bidding. granted I would have to be very sure of it, and this does seem to be a strong case for them shill bidding based on what you found. maybe you take a chance of them returning a negative (i haven't ebayed in awhile, but seem to have read rule changes on what buyer/sellers can leave for feedback), but I'd probably still do it. I won a copy of a record for VERY cheap (a $60+ record for $8) a while back, and the person never replied or sent the record for months. a week later another account with next to no feedback had the record up for sale from the same location, and granted I didn't have exact proof it was the same, after a few weeks when both auctions where over and no record/no contact, I left negative feedback saying they re-auctioned it because it sold so low. They didn't ding me back, but replied to my negative on their feedback page saying basically 'prove it'. I did receive the record almost 2 months later after leaving the feedback. It was all kind of weird, but my point is, I felt scammed, so I left the negative anyway. In the end I suspect they eventually found another copy and sent it to me... I think you've been scammed, and should do the same... of course also contact ebay... or maybe even contact ebay first. But paying double for something because of shill bidding, is not something to roll over for just because you were willing to put that high of a bid in. ....the mischievous part of me wants to see record store contacted directly ;p Buyers can't get negative feedbacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalatapes Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 how about we all contact the store... I'm down to make a call, but we don't have 100% proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'll contact the seller first. I'll see what their response is and post here. I decided that I have no problem waiting to get the record another time, based on the going rate it can save me quite some cash. If I get a shitty response, you guys are welcome to make a call if you feel like it haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I would think that eBay could verify fairly easily based on IP address traffic (assuming it's just someone logging out and logging in to another account). I can't point to why, but I vaguely remember this being something ebay actually responded to and acted on. Maybe it was from something here. If no problem waiting to get the record another time, yeah, let's see if any lolz come out of it. I was of the impression on first post you really wanted record now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 An update to this, sent a message to the seller: Hi,Not really sure how to start this, but I thought I'd contact you 1st before sending the details to ebay.I was very excited to win this, but soon disappointed after checking your sales history to see a bidding pattern that I can only explain as shill bidding. That account (as a buyer the ID is hidden from me, it's the one with 109 feedback score) popped out to me when I saw that they have 12 bids in their 30-day history, 100% of them are with you. Then I checked all your active and ended auctions with any bids and saw that out of 23, 19 were bid on by that same account. Even a bigger tell was the fact that even though that account won quite a few, not a single feedback was left for you by or from you for that account.I already talked to ebay regarding shill bidding and they have a really strong position on the issue, but I wanted to get in touch first to hear your side. Of course I was willing to pay what I bid, but not if 50% of the price is due to shill bids.Regards and got this response: It's really dissappointing that you would make these ridiculous and totally false accusations. I also believe it's also irresponsible to spread these false accusations in public forums. What you're claiming makes no sense. Unfortunately I can't control what you do or what you think. I will cancel your your purchase. FYI, you got a record for $102.50 that was in my store for $250, and last sold online for $203. I will not be responding to any more of your emails. I then contacted ebay via live chat and they told me "the process for that bidding that you have won was legit so you don't have to worry", and also confirmed there have been previous cancelled transactions between these two accounts. Not really sure where I should stand, it sucks if the seller did in fact have nothing to do with it (while I do find it hard to believe someone would bid on almost all of their auctions), and it also sucks if the seller did boost their own auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of Breath Records Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 That strong defensiveness of their response is almost a clear admission of guilt haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of Breath Records Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 How'd they know you were discussing this on a public forum? Brevity38, kamalatapes and TheGhostOfRandySavage 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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