jerseydave77 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Ok - Braun: he's linked to roids more definitively than a couple of the guys facing rumors. How do they handle him? I think MLB and the Hall of Fame need to own up to the legacy of steroids, talk openly about it and give guidance as to how they'd like to see it handled. At this point the writers seem to be smoking the officials out to talk in terms they've avoided through this entire mess. Schilling saying everyone is responsible yesterday was one of the better things I've read from anyone on the subject. It's time to have an open discussion instead of hoping for the writers to do it. I mean, how do you keep the HR King, the man with the most Cy Youngs, the player with the most 60+ HR seasons out of the Hall? I don't want them in at the moment but they need to be addressed at some point or another. You can't just sweep it under the rug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Ok - Braun: he's linked to roids more definitively than a couple of the guys facing rumors. How do they handle him? I think MLB and the Hall of Fame need to own up to the legacy of steroids, talk openly about it and give guidance as to how they'd like to see it handled. At this point the writers seem to be smoking the officials out to talk in terms they've avoided through this entire mess. Schilling saying everyone is responsible yesterday was one of the better things I've read from anyone on the subject. It's time to have an open discussion instead of hoping for the writers to do it. I mean, how do you keep the HR King, the man with the most Cy Youngs, the player with the most 60+ HR seasons out of the Hall? I don't want them in at the moment but they need to be addressed at some point or another. You can't just sweep it under the rug. well the think with braun is that the test/process was questioned through independent arbitration, and he won, and theres no signs of "improvement" in performance from one year to the next, so I think the situation Braun went through was ESPN OTL jumping the gun trying to "break" a story when it going through the entire arb process that players like Ramirez/Cabrera/ect who got caught chose not to go through because they were actually guilty. ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 if he goes through the rest of his career with zero flags going up, and maintains the performance he's had, he'll get into the Hall on first ballot as he'll probably break 3,000 hits. if any flags go up he'll never get in. its not like his situation is like Bonds/McGuire/Sosa/Clemens ect. where there was a significant uptick in performance/numbers/body size as they got older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I think the general attitude of the writers (not all) is that they were asleep at the wheel, baseball was asleep at the wheel, the union was asleep at the wheel, and on and on, which lead to a compromising of the game they love and arguably the most hallowed record in sports. Now they have a chance to do something about it and they aren't caving again. Some of these guys will get in eventually but not for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Suppose Braun did use steroids. However he used them to help with recovery and fatigue, not to turn into the hulk like Bonds and Mcgwire. He is listed at 6-1 210. Is this a lesser sin? It wasn't so much "performance enhancing" as "performance preserving" in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Braun getting 3000 hits? Are you serious? Seeing as has played 6 full seasons from 2007-2012 and is at 1089 hits, and just turned 29 this November, he would have to play twelve more years at the same level as his first 6 years to get there. He will not be playing at 41 years old and still be this good. He wont be this good at 35 or 36. He might get 2500-2750 hits, but not 3000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hey we'll see! He could move to the AL and DH into his early 40's barring injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Maybe 3000 is a stretch but a fanboy can always hope and expect hahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Cabby is a lock for 3000, at least, barring injury. Same age as Braun (assuming you can trust a latin player's age) with 700 more hits to this point. Same calibre of player. Just fortunate that he didn't play college ball and shot to the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Fantasy baseball on my mind. One league (head to head) I keep a pitcher and hitter. Have JV and Mike Trout. Pretty sure I have the best keepers possible, unless someone can counter with Cabrera and Kershaw/Strasburg, and even then it is a toss-up. Other league we keep six (yahoo 5x5 standard rotisserie). Keeping Cano, Kemp, Hamilton (14 team league, and I have 3 of the top 14 players!), Edwin Encarnacion, Ian Desmond, and then I have to choose 1 of Napoli, Sandoval, and Hanrahan. There are some other guys who are longshots but could come into consideration with excellent spring reports like Machado, Beachy, Jannsen, and super long shot -- Billy Hamilton. Any thoughts on any of these players? I might trade Hamilton for Strasburg to balance out my team between pitching and hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I agree with you on Migs, man really is a beast. I am still baffled today as to why the Marlins ever traded him at such a young age. He was an absolute stud then and only going to get better. As long as he can keep his off -field issues to a minimum (stop getting so damn drunk all the time) and can stay healthy he will be above 3,000 and cant wait to see his final ave, HR, OPS, etc. I would consider dropping Desmond and keeping Sandoval and Machado. Between Pablo, E5 and Manny you could trade one of them for someone better than Desmond at ss. I say that because I dont know if i entirely trust his season last year. 40 point jump in ave and obp and 15 more homers? Is it just because he is surrounded by better players and is seeing better pitches or a lucky season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Desmond definitely far from a proven commodity but SS is so weak already with everyone keeping 6. Probably looking at guys like Alcides Escobar and JJ Hardy being the top guys available in the draft at the position. Definitely like to have Machado back but there is a good chance I think I could throw him back and redraft him. He's didn't amaze in his short stint. We have a rule in our league that offseason trades can only be 1 for 1 or 2 for 2. What we saw is that people were splitting up top guys to make runs at first, then recombining them into top keepers after the season was over, which is kinda gaming the system. So I could trade Desmond but not for anyone considerably better, maybe just a safer player but at a deeper position. He is probably staying. I really wanted Napoli to have a good home in Boston cause it is so nice to have a player qualifying at catcher but playing everyday somewhere else. If the Red Sox are trying to get away from him, then I'm not sure I want him, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoshotthefrog Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Fantasy baseball on my mind. One league (head to head) I keep a pitcher and hitter. Have JV and Mike Trout. Pretty sure I have the best keepers possible, unless someone can counter with Cabrera and Kershaw/Strasburg, and even then it is a toss-up. Other league we keep six (yahoo 5x5 standard rotisserie). Keeping Cano, Kemp, Hamilton (14 team league, and I have 3 of the top 14 players!), Edwin Encarnacion, Ian Desmond, and then I have to choose 1 of Napoli, Sandoval, and Hanrahan. There are some other guys who are longshots but could come into consideration with excellent spring reports like Machado, Beachy, Jannsen, and super long shot -- Billy Hamilton. Any thoughts on any of these players? I might trade Hamilton for Strasburg to balance out my team between pitching and hitting. Beachy is out until July. I would keep Machado over Napoli, Sandoval, Hanrahan, Beachy and Jannsen. There may be some growing pains with Machado but if there no limit on the amount of years you can keep someone, he is the guy to keep. I'm not sure how your keepers work, 'm assuming whatever round the player was drafted in the year before is the round he will be considered for this year, but Machado will definitely be drafted high this year. My guess is between rounds 6-10. I could be wrong though but if Machado is considered a late round keeper he must be the guy to keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 On Braun: Was no one else put off by his character attacks against the sample taker? This guy got off on a technicality and instead of being gracious he went out of his way to smear a guy who by all accounts did his job as instructed and had a great reputation. Really turned me off of a player that I had really liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I guess I shoulda been more clear on the keepers. We keep 2,4,6, and then redraft. Given that this is the year we keep 6, anyone I keep is only for a single year. Keepers are not based on draft position. You keep 6 regardless, then we do a normal snake draft where everyone picks in each round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjb2k1 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Suppose Braun did use steroids. However he used them to help with recovery and fatigue, not to turn into the hulk like Bonds and Mcgwire. He is listed at 6-1 210. Is this a lesser sin? It wasn't so much "performance enhancing" as "performance preserving" in that case. that was andy pettitte's excuse but it's probably going to screw him over too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I think it is somewhat legitimate, especially considering how many guys used amphetamines in the past to stay on the field with energy. I'm not really that anti-steroid, though. I just hate the liars. I wish the government would allow scientific studies of them to figure out if they really have the negative effects associated with them (things like depression and roid rage). As it stands now, they are controlled substances that aren't allowed to be experimented with, so any claims like that are unproven accusations. I tend to lean towards thinking they are banned to keep the playing field level and protect records, but if they end up not being as bad as they are made out to be, they should be made legal. The game has adapted to things like this before (sometimes poorly, like keeping 2 single season home run records for a long time because Marris played 162 games). But I think using historical perspective to split the game into different eras is preferable to trying to police it from ever changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I feel like Canseco really is the guy that should spear head this. He has been nothing but openly honest about them and the effect that he had on them. Because of this, baseball shuns him and mocks him while they should embrace him with open arms because no one else will be honest about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I also really feel like things will change drastically when Selig is done and we get a new Commissioner. Selig is who really ruined everything and made this giant mess and only cares about his legacy, not the sports. Once someone else takes his place I think a lot of the issues will be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Maybe, but what I said needs to start with the government. Regardless of who is the commissioner, they are going to be forced to take a hard stance against PEDs as long as they are illegal. Selig is going to be forever remembered for the steroid era and calling a tie in the all star game. Do commissioners get elected to the hall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 MLB (Selig) and MLBPA (Weiner) just agreed to blood testing for HGH/Elevated testosterone randomly throughout the season, they have now surpassed all other leagues in PED testing. im not sure whatelse they need to do right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 They are doing it right now. The only real improvement I could see would be allowing teams to get out of contracts for players that test positive to create a disincentive to use. But mostly Selfreliable and I are talking about damage done ten plus years ago, not current problems with the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 right, I just wanted to make sure you guys knew that they were infact doing something about the present and future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Commissioners can be elected to the Hall, but only one (Kenshaw Mountain Landis, who was the first) is in, and he was put in a month after he died back in the 40's. Selig is actually the second longest commish, with Landis having 24 years total to going on 21 this season. I get the feeling that Selig wants to make sure he is the second one put in. He openly allowed steroids into the game and did nothing about it as a way to get fans interested in the sport after the strike of 94. While it did work, one has to wonder about the overall impact that it caused. Yes, players took greenies, coke, etc to deal with the long season and injuries, but none of those actually make changes to your bodies like steroids do. I always think back to Bronson Arroyo's quote about steroids when players were saying that they didnt give them an edge. Im paraphrasing here but it was to the extent of "Steroids made me feel like a monster, I can only imagine what Manny and Ortiz felt like on them". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 You could also say "look at how mild mannered and lovable a guy like David Ortiz is" even though he pretty likely used them. I feel like it makes assholes into giant assholes and nice guys stay nice guys. I mean, there are thousands and thousands of people who use them and don't end up in bar fights or prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.