NHL Discussion

[silentgods]

and also, for the love of god/satan/buddha/giant monkey idol in the sky shut up about refs.

[kirbypuckett]

LOL

Crosby is only a known diver to immature brats like you.

that's why fans at rinks across north america bring out crosby "no diving" signs to games all year long right? the guy is known as a bitch. the only people who don't think he's a bitch diver are pens fans.

Your logic is horrible.

Stop judging the guy based on his rookie year. Everyone admits that he has grown up tremendously. Well, everyone except for "Crosby haters" that is.

Try to see things from a non-biased stand point and you'll realize that he is quite mature for a 21 year old. Aren't you like 30 years old and you throw immature remarks around on a message board? Not to mention your inability to locate the shift key.

Like I said, not dealing w/ this Crosby stuff. It's been beaten to death more than Brad discussing the refs. I have nothing to gain from you liking or not liking Sid, but it is pretty pathetic how much you get worked up over it.

LET'S GO PENS!!!

[silentgods]

at the end of the day.

anything positive the pens fans say about the pens is biased.

anything positive the wings fans say about the wings is biased.

[crime]

whether you want to admit it or not crosby still dives a hell of a lot more than any other player in the league. the only people who don't admit that are pens fans.

pens fans are probably the most illogical fans (maybe behind sens fans).

i can't wait for them to start sucking shit again in 3 or 4 years. now that they won't be getting top draft picks and most likely won't be able to afford to resign key players.

[sgoodcore]

He might dive but there's not a single team in the NHL who wouldn't trade their right arm to have him play for their team.

And crime, that's exactly what people said about the Red Wings so I wouldn't wish that kind of ill-will toward another franchise. Also, they're going to get better, not worse and people are going to take less money to play with Sid and Geno if the Pens are perennial contenders.

[drabley]

^^^

Didn't think it was possible; someone more annoying than Brad.

Edit: Sammy was too quick. Not directed at him.

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[kirbypuckett]

whether you want to admit it or not crosby still dives a hell of a lot more than any other player in the league. the only people who don't admit that are pens fans.

pens fans are probably the most illogical fans (maybe behind sens fans).

i can't wait for them to start sucking shit again in 3 or 4 years. now that they won't be getting top draft picks and most likely won't be able to afford to resign key players.

You must only watch Red Wings games I guess.

If you go back about 30 pages in this thread there was another Crosby discussion. I think you might have been involved too. I'm pretty sure Brad was and Jeff chimed in a few times as well.

Find me 3 videos of Crosby blatantly diving in the past 3 seasons and then make your diving statement. Now these videos have to be pretty concrete dives, nothing that looks a little iffy. This shouldn't be hard right? I mean he DIVES SO MUCH that there has to be at least 50 game clips over the last 3 seasons of Crosby flopping around like a little fishy.

The Pens have Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Stall, Orpik, etc... all locked up, so you're going to have to wait a little more than "3 or 4 years."

Moron.

[brad]

skimmed it....and you made a good point, but i am still slightly upset you consider the slash a legit slash.

i, like you it seems, grew up on playing hockey without diving. if you are hurt you go to the bench and deal with it then, you don't life face down in the defensive zone pinning for a call.

Incredible. You must have played in some magical league where every player played precisely by the book without infraction or bending of the rules. The refs never missed a call and never got a call wrong -- not that there was much to call in the first place since you were kept tightly in check by some doctrine of honor. You should contact NHL officials and inform them of this league so they can attempt to emmulate it.

no....? i said that in the defensive zone it is more important to keep playing defense than lay face down pinning for a call. no where did i say people i played with didn't embellish, or bad calls were made. but yes, there is an "honor code" in sport of hockey, sadly it seems to be falling away in some areas.

Players have been exagerating minor infractions against them or creating the illusion of an infraction since the sport began. This is called a dive. Nobody has played hockey, or any sport where penalties are called, without some form of diving. Christ -- pretty much every slide tackle in a soccer match involves some sort of diving, yet it is the most popular sport in the world. Has the degree of flamboyance changed with time? Absolutely. But so has the flamboyance of the games themselves.

can you go one post without trying to compare hockey to other sports, and the surrounding world? sure, there are some dives in hockey put not many people lay on the ice waiting for a whistle. that shit doesn't happen.

You seem torn between two worlds, Mr. Brad. You seem to genuinely love the game, but yet it seems you wish to steer it to a place where it can no longer exist. The game has been Americanized now. The focus is on offence, salaries and revenue. Powerplays equal offence. Why do you think interference is called so liberally now? I can remember never seeing interference calls unless it involved a goaltender -- now the goaltender seems to be the only player not involved in these calls. Offence.

not really. i like i'm sure most of the fan base care about 5 on 5 hockey. Hockey was always a niche sport but those who loved and understood the game were diehards. the powerplay, weak calls are wearing down the true fans and it's showing all across the league.

Considering league revenues have increased by several hundred percent since Mr. Bettman took the helm, I'd say that a large swath of people aren't taking it quite as personally as yourself. Some don't know any better. Some do. Some also know that in order for the sport to stay relevant, it needs to adapt to fit the demands of the public at large. If a purist has their feathers ruffled here and there along the way, so be it.

when has hockey ever been more than a 5th or 6th sport nationwide? in some areas it's the #1 or #2 sport, but overall shit like nascar, poker, the spelling bee are all way ahead of ratings and advertising revenue. but, with the turn of how the game is being called in some of the old #1 and #2 areas hockey is starting to fall. I can only really speak in terms of philadelphia but philly use to be/still is a great hockey town. it's been on a downslide since the lockout though. regular season games use to be great in philly, now it's just starting to get boring. I would put the playoff philly crowd against anyone else's fan base but regular season? it's no good.

and about your revenues....teams are still going bankrupt, tv viewership has been pathetic on versus, and the cap might even go down. cap goes down as the same time revenues go up? impossible.

In summary, put up or shut up.

????????? put up what exactly

[brad]

^^^

Didn't think it was possible; someone more annoying than Brad.

Edit: Sammy was too quick. Not directed at him.

lol, don't get your panties in a bunch about me. i'm sure you've neg'd me about 10 times in this thread alone, even after i keep owning you.

[andrew13]

whether you want to admit it or not crosby still dives a hell of a lot more than any other player in the league. the only people who don't admit that are pens fans.

pens fans are probably the most illogical fans (maybe behind sens fans).

i can't wait for them to start sucking shit again in 3 or 4 years. now that they won't be getting top draft picks and most likely won't be able to afford to resign key players.

huh? we're near the cap now, will be next year, and the team is doing great financially. crosby and malkin are locked up long term, so is fleury. the team has been pretty smart about signing players so far.

[brad]

Remind me when you pointed out a single other player for embellishment; to me its implicit.

i know i've mentioned AO do it, i've said something about some rangers, and i've said something about hartnell (who is one of my favorite players).

dives of that nature in the defensive zone are inexcusable for any player on any team.

[drabley]

^^^

Didn't think it was possible; someone more annoying than Brad.

Edit: Sammy was too quick. Not directed at him.

lol, don't get your panties in a bunch about me. i'm sure you've neg'd me about 10 times in this thread alone, even after i keep owning you.

I have never smited anyone on this board. Ever.

So what does that tell you.

[sgoodcore]

I've got one complaint about Sid: dude needs to wait a few years before trying to grow a playoff beard.

[murakami]

and his voice is a little high pitched

but i would trade my booming voice and facial rat nest for half his hockey skills

[sgoodcore]

and his voice is a little high pitched

but i would trade my booming voice and facial rat nest for half his hockey skills

I would honestly be tempted to become a eunuch if I could have his hockey skills.

[drabley]

I've got one complaint about Sid: dude needs to wait a few years before trying to grow a playoff beard.

Haha.

There was a point where it looked like he was growing armpit hair on his chin.

Eunuch -- I'd bet there are a few hits to dictionary.com for that one, Sammy.

[kirbypuckett]

Eunuch Boy!

[sgoodcore]

Figured it was the classier way to get the message across and I figured m-w.com needed some help with hits.

[brad]

lol, don't get your panties in a bunch about me. i'm sure you've neg'd me about 10 times in this thread alone, even after i keep owning you.

I have never smited anyone on this board. Ever.

So what does that tell you.

tells me it must be pure coincidence. always doesn't change the fact that you still ignore my ownings.

[crime]

He might dive but there's not a single team in the NHL who wouldn't trade their right arm to have him play for their team.

And crime, that's exactly what people said about the Red Wings so I wouldn't wish that kind of ill-will toward another franchise. Also, they're going to get better, not worse and people are going to take less money to play with Sid and Geno if the Pens are perennial contenders.

the wings wouldn't trade shit for crosby. there's at least one team for you.

the pens formula for sucess the past couple of years is completely different than the wings. the pens lucked out with a few high first round draft picks and were able to put a team together around that. they're not bringing up any similar talent through their system right now to fill the holes in their line up.

eventually players will walk away from the pens looking for more money. they haven't really established themselves as a dominant playoff franchise like the wings to have the ability to attract top line players for reduced contracts or keep top line players for reduced contracts.

that's a problem with a lot of nhl teams (not just the pens). they'll have a couple years of sucess and are able to rope in some good players but eventually the big names leave and they settle back down to mediocrcy.

other than the obvious (crosby, malkin etc) who have the pens drafted and developed through their farm system in recent years?

detroit has a knack that no other team in the league has for scouting and drafting players that go under the radar of pretty much every other team.

you can't deny that detroit has the best scouting/drafting in the entire league and that's why they're able to maintain a high level of sucess year after year.

there comes a point (especially in hockey) where you can't just rely on signing big names to your team to be sucessful. you need to be able to develop your own players. and the pens have not shown that they have that ability.

thus, why i believe the pens will not be able to continue the level of sucess they've had for the past few season for more than a couple of more seasons.

[sgoodcore]

Okay now you're just crazy. If you don't believe the Wings would trade Filppula, Samuelsson, and Helm for Crosby in a heartbeat - not that the Pens would take that of course - there's just no talking to you about anything.

other than the obvious (crosby, malkin etc) who have the pens drafted and developed through their farm system in recent years?

Fleury most notably. But then there's:

- Scuderi

- Goligoski

- Kennedy

- Staal

- Letang

- Talbot

All playing roles in the current Stanley Cup team, I believe with the exception of Goligoski who played for the Pens throughout the year. You're totally and completely wrong, bias, and short-sighted. Not to mention frustrated your Wings have looked not-so-good in this now tied, best-of-three series.

[murakami]

The Florida Marlins are about the only team in all sports that could compete with the Wings scouting and development.

That being said, the Pens farm system isnt as bone dry as you make it out to be. Their AHL team finished with the 5th most points in the regular season (Det's team was 8th)

Over the next two or three years, we will see how many players take home town discounts and sign long term, front heavy contracts that help the cap hit (i dont like that this is legal, but thats the way it goes).

i agree with Sammy, Sid would be welcome in any dressing room in the league if the cap wasnt an issue

in the end, i think it will be a number of years before the pens or wings miss the playoffs again

[brad]

Okay now you're just crazy. If you don't believe the Wings would trade Filppula, Samuelsson, and Helm for Crosby in a heartbeat - not that the Pens would take that of course - there's just no talking to you about anything.

well, that's the point. all in all, how many teams would give up the amount of talent for crosby? probably not that many, especially if the cap is going down.

would the red wings trade zetterberg straight up for crosby? i would say no with about 90% certainty

[sgoodcore]

If the Wings didn't trade Zetterberg for Crosby they would be flat out fucking insane.

Crosby (21 years old) 290 132 265 397, 1.36 pts/game

Zetterberg (28 years old) 432 183 222 405 0.94 pts/game

Now, Crosby isn't even close to his prime. It won't hit for another 3-4 years. Yet, head-to-head against Zetterberg in Henrik's prime Crosby is averaging close to a half-point more per game. That's 40 more points per season and that includes Crosby's rookie year when he was all of 18 years old. Crosby will be a much better than Henrik over the course of their respective careers. That's just an unbiased fact.

Sure Crosby's +/- is worse but his teams have been not quite as good as the Red Wings. Crosby's shooting percentage is a few points higher for those who use that stat as comparison. And xI'll give you Crosby, at this point, isn't as good defensively as Zetterberg but the difference there isn't nearly great enough to compensate for the immense amount of skill Sid brings to the table.

I hate to break it to all the Sid haters but the kid is just going to get better over the next 10 years. Ten. Yep, 10 years before Sid's skill-set will be in decline and then his mental game would be at its peak. I mean his ceiling is outrageous.