catalinacaper Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I resent vegetarians/vegans for turning food into something ideological. I'm gonna eat whatever the hell I want. I view eating meat and using animal products to be just as much as an ideology as being vegetarian/vegan. Non vegans love to paint us as militant where as I would use the word passionate to describe our, at least my, position. Non vegans get incredibly defensive about food/lifestyle politics because really they have to be. It's the only way for them to not feel guilty. If you consume animal products you have to recognize that you are selfish. You have to be comfortable with the fact that your actions result in the death of sentient beings. Your actions damage the environment. Your actions harm your health. Eat/consume whatever you please but don't parade around as if you're innocent. Own up to what you do. Without getting too deep into this, seeing as I didn't major in animal ethics.. you proved my point for me. You're telling me what is and isn't right or wrong or good or bad. I, and the 95% of the world that agrees with me, will continue to eat meat because it tastes good. Get over it. Just because you think differently doesn't mean you're better than anyone. It's the high and mighty bullshit that gets vegans so made fun of. You might as well be an evangelical nut too. Now excuse me while I eat my chicken and bacon ranch sub from subway. Eat your heart out vegans. Though that would break vegan edge.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 There are many famous athletes who don't eat meat. It's definitely not the majority, but they do exist and succeed.For example, Carl Lewis, Bill Walton, Tony Gonzalez. And now let's compare them to a few meat-eaters: Tim Tebow, Ryan Leaf, Matt Leinart. Clear advantage? Vegetarians. How about a few more: Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning. You lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesomexloveus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 i'm gonna have to start posting JS gifs soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 What about Prince Fielder? He is a fat vegatarian. And not very athletic at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzersonKillwell Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I view eating meat and using animal products to be just as much as an ideology as being vegetarian/vegan. Non vegans love to paint us as militant where as I would use the word passionate to describe our, at least my, position. Non vegans get incredibly defensive about food/lifestyle politics because really they have to be. It's the only way for them to not feel guilty. If you consume animal products you have to recognize that you are selfish. You have to be comfortable with the fact that your actions result in the death of sentient beings. Your actions damage the environment. Your actions harm your health. Eat/consume whatever you please but don't parade around as if you're innocent. Own up to what you do. Without getting too deep into this, seeing as I didn't major in animal ethics.. you proved my point for me. You're telling me what is and isn't right or wrong or good or bad. I, and the 95% of the world that agrees with me, will continue to eat meat because it tastes good. Get over it. Just because you think differently doesn't mean you're better than anyone. It's the high and mighty bullshit that gets vegans so made fun of. You might as well be an evangelical nut too. Now excuse me while I eat my chicken and bacon ranch sub from subway. Eat your heart out vegans. Though that would break vegan edge.. This is the entire problem in a nutshell. I find a lot of vegans comparable to Michael Moore. There are some valid points about health and the environment in there but you have to wade through and awful lot of finger-wagging and condescension to find it. The frequency and forcefulness in which most vegans proselytize is probably not effective. The most frequent response I see, a vehement promise to continue to eat more meat, is also not helpful. So round and round we go. Weeeeeee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 What about Prince Fielder? He is a fat vegatarian. And not very athletic at all. He only recently became vegetarian. Hes still fat but has lots of power. Must replace meat with frosted flakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towniecore Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 as long as you're getting enough lean protein, it doesn't really matter if it's from an animal or not. That statement is wrong. Check out the nutrition data below. Same serving size, 24g of protein vs 7g, 120 cal vs 140. Just an example, but pretty similar across the board. Chicken Breast Nutrition Facts Serving Size: 4oz Amount per Serving Calories 120 Calories from Fat 13.5 Total Fat 1.5g Saturated Fat 0.5g Cholesterol 70mg Sodium 0mg Total Carbohydrate 0g Protein 24g Black Beans Serving Size: 4 oz - 1/2 cup Amount per Serving Calories 140 Calories from Fat 9.0 Total Fat 1g Saturated Fat 0g Cholesterol 0mg Sodium 0mg Total Carbohydrate 25g Protein 7g Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/nutrition-calories/food/generic/black-beans/#ixzz1iQQl10iI Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/....#ixzz1iQQ8jc hV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesomexloveus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 you may have missed the 'lean' part of that. i understand the difference in calories. i think it's pretty obvious that with any special diet, you need to compensate in the gym, or in other aspects of your diet with things such as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towniecore Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 you may have missed the 'lean' part of that. i understand the difference in calories. i think it's pretty obvious that with any special diet, you need to compensate in the gym, or in other aspects of your diet with things such as that. I don't believe adapting a diet that is dependent on exercise to keep you healthy is very beneficial. Not sure what "other aspects of your diet with things such as that" means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Avatar Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 towniecore, guess what!? fun, unrelated fact: milk causes osteoporosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest markovianprocess Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 as long as you're getting enough lean protein, it doesn't really matter if it's from an animal or not. That statement is wrong. Check out the nutrition data below. Same serving size, 24g of protein vs 7g, 120 cal vs 140. Just an example, but pretty similar across the board. Chicken Breast Nutrition Facts Serving Size: 4oz Amount per Serving Calories 120 Calories from Fat 13.5 Total Fat 1.5g Saturated Fat 0.5g Cholesterol 70mg Sodium 0mg Total Carbohydrate 0g Protein 24g Black Beans Serving Size: 4 oz - 1/2 cup Amount per Serving Calories 140 Calories from Fat 9.0 Total Fat 1g Saturated Fat 0g Cholesterol 0mg Sodium 0mg Total Carbohydrate 25g Protein 7g Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/nutrition-calories/food/generic/black-beans/#ixzz1iQQl10iI Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/....#ixzz1iQQ8jc hV Soybeans Serving Size 100g Calories 471 % Daily Value* Total Fat 25.4g 39% Saturated Fat 3.674g 18% Cholesterol 0mg 0% Sodium 4mg 0% Total Carbohydrate 33.6g 11% Dietary Fiber 17.7g 71% Sugar ~g ~ Protein 35.2g Chicken Breast Tenders Cooked Serving Size 100g Calories 293 % Daily Value* Total Fat 17.69g 27% Saturated Fat 3.786g 19% Cholesterol 44mg 15% Sodium 457mg 19% Total Carbohydrate 17g 6% Dietary Fiber 1.3g 5% Sugar 0.4g ~ Protein 15.8g http://www.healthaliciousness.com/nutritionfacts/nutrition-facts-compare.php Really just depends what website you check and what you compare, doesn't it? If you'd compared soybeans, you'd see that they have more than double the amount of protein in the same serving size. Again, if I was to go to the link below, you could say that at #1 is cheese, and at numbers #2 and #4 are vegan foodstuffs (#3 and #5 meat of some sort). http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/foods-highest-in-protein.php What I'm getting at here is, you're all debating your point on the basis of a single paper. Going, "oh look at this, this science said this thing, so it must be right, take that alternative viewpoint!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle350 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Bill Pearl doesn't eat meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Why dont we all just eat rocks? Wouldnt that just solve all the problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towniecore Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 towniecore, guess what!?fun, unrelated fact: milk causes osteoporosis. Thanks for that. I actually don't consume any dairy products. Coconut milk FTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towniecore Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 That statement is wrong. Check out the nutrition data below. Same serving size, 24g of protein vs 7g, 120 cal vs 140. Just an example, but pretty similar across the board. Chicken Breast Nutrition Facts Serving Size: 4oz Amount per Serving Calories 120 Calories from Fat 13.5 Total Fat 1.5g Saturated Fat 0.5g Cholesterol 70mg Sodium 0mg Total Carbohydrate 0g Protein 24g Black Beans Serving Size: 4 oz - 1/2 cup Amount per Serving Calories 140 Calories from Fat 9.0 Total Fat 1g Saturated Fat 0g Cholesterol 0mg Sodium 0mg Total Carbohydrate 25g Protein 7g Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/nutrition-calories/food/generic/black-beans/#ixzz1iQQl10iI Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/....#ixzz1iQQ8jc hV Soybeans Serving Size 100g Calories 471 % Daily Value* Total Fat 25.4g 39% Saturated Fat 3.674g 18% Cholesterol 0mg 0% Sodium 4mg 0% Total Carbohydrate 33.6g 11% Dietary Fiber 17.7g 71% Sugar ~g ~ Protein 35.2g Chicken Breast Tenders Cooked Serving Size 100g Calories 293 % Daily Value* Total Fat 17.69g 27% Saturated Fat 3.786g 19% Cholesterol 44mg 15% Sodium 457mg 19% Total Carbohydrate 17g 6% Dietary Fiber 1.3g 5% Sugar 0.4g ~ Protein 15.8g http://www.healthaliciousness.com/nutritionfacts/nutrition-facts-compare.php Really just depends what website you check and what you compare, doesn't it? If you'd compared soybeans, you'd see that they have more than double the amount of protein in the same serving size. Again, if I was to go to the link below, you could say that at #1 is cheese, and at numbers #2 and #4 are vegan foodstuffs (#3 and #5 meat of some sort). http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/foods-highest-in-protein.php What I'm getting at here is, you're all debating your point on the basis of a single paper. Going, "oh look at this, this science said this thing, so it must be right, take that alternative viewpoint!". Not sure what constitutes the chicken you quoted up there but normal cooked chicken breast does not contain 17 grams of carbohydrates or 457 mg of sodium. Here's the data, same scenario as the black beans. SOYBEANS Nutrition Facts Serving Size 1 cup (172.0 g) Amount Per Serving Calories 298 Calories from Fat 139 Total Fat 15.4g Saturated Fat 2.2g Polyunsaturated Fat 8.7g Monounsaturated Fat 3.4g Cholesterol 0mg Sodium 2mg Total Carbohydrates 17.1g Dietary Fiber 10.3g Sugars 5.2g Protein 28.6g CHICKEN BREAST Nutrition Facts Serving Size 1 cup, chopped or diced (140.0 g) Amount Per Serving Calories 231 Calories from Fat Total Fat 5.0g Saturated Fat 1.4g Polyunsaturated Fat 1.1g Monounsaturated Fat 1.7g Cholesterol 119mg Sodium 104mg Total Carbohydrates 0.0g Protein 43.4g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryemis Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 you may have missed the 'lean' part of that. i understand the difference in calories. i think it's pretty obvious that with any special diet, you need to compensate in the gym, or in other aspects of your diet with things such as that. I don't believe adapting a diet that is dependent on exercise to keep you healthy is very beneficial. Not sure what "other aspects of your diet with things such as that" means. Every diet is dependent on exercise to keep you healthy. Sure, it depends on your definition of healthy, but generally speaking. Everyone needs, at least, cardio to keep your heart strong. Then you can start considering yourself "healthy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Avatar Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 towniecore, guess what!?fun, unrelated fact: milk causes osteoporosis. Thanks for that. I actually don't consume any dairy products. Coconut milk FTW. Damn, but good. Dairy is gross! I personally do almond milk. so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towniecore Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I don't believe adapting a diet that is dependent on exercise to keep you healthy is very beneficial. Not sure what "other aspects of your diet with things such as that" means. Every diet is dependent on exercise to keep you healthy. Sure, it depends on your definition of healthy, but generally speaking. Everyone needs, at least, cardio to keep your heart strong. Then you can start considering yourself "healthy." A combination of Diet and Exercise is definitely an optimal solution for health. However, I don't think a diet that will cause you to gain weight or become unhealthy if you stop exercising is a smart one to practice. I believe exercise is more of an accessory you can apply (or not apply) to your foundation of a clean diet. That being said, I try to exercise (HIIT, or OLY Lifting) 4-5 times a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towniecore Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Thanks for that. I actually don't consume any dairy products. Coconut milk FTW. Damn, but good. Dairy is gross! I personally do almond milk. so good. I'm all about the almond milk as well. Good Stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towniecore Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Bill Pearl doesn't eat meat. Eggs and Roid's haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriss Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 A lot of great points have been made in this thread so far for both veganism/vegetarianism as well as the pluses of animal products and meat. Personally, I'm vegan (in the manner of definition that I referred to in an earlier post on the first page) due to a combination of ethics and health concerns. When I first went vegan five years ago, I found a whole world of foods opened up for me that I never knew existed and was so inspired by it that I went to culinary school and do what I do now as a result. This is simply me though and certainly I think what all should agree on is that whatever you choose to consume should be your own choice made up via your own fully formed opinions and views outside of strong prevalent influence. I've known folks who have worked off of the paleo/primitive diet and it works well for them - doesn't mean it would work for me. I personally have nothing against folks eating meat and have infact prepared it for a few clients before, my only issue comes in how that meat is cultivated (factory farming, etc) so I opt for more sustainable routes when I need to prepare such a thing for a client. I agree that many veggies tend to dilute the term due to laziness by eating crap which is coincidentially in line with their way of eating as opposed to more healthy things, but the same could be argued for meat eaters subsisting off of big macs. Bad eating is bad eating across the board regardless of the source. At the moment, I'm adjusting to a 1,500 calorie/150 carbohydrate a day way of consuming foods which is requiring me to load up even more so on veggies and less so on white flour based products. Ultimately I think this will be better for my way of consumption and also my health and I plan on making it the base for how I would like to eat from here on out as opposed to it being a temporal diet - again though, while it may work for me, it probably won't work for others. My intentions in linking that article came due to my disdain for how heavy handed the writing was to one side - which is what it shouldn't have been - that is to say, balanced. Lot of good discussion going on here. We should all be tolerant of what each other does since at the day it's everyone's own business and not anyone else's anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 many veggies tend to dilute the term due to laziness by eating crap this is why I usually refer to myself as a "pastatarian" (or, perhaps more appropriately, a "carbotarian", but that's not as fun), due to my diet which consists primarily pasta, pretzels, orange juice, and grapes (i.e., I don't like to claim to be a vegetarian since I don't eat vegetables). and don't bother lecturing me about the healthiness of my diet--that's for a health-conscious future girlfriend to fix. in the meantime, I'm a grad student (in the school of public health, no less...) who finds 1 or 2 pasta meals/day cheap, convenient, and tasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Fuckin' right. I had Mac'n'cheese last night and a bowl of pasta for lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipsterasfolk Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm a veg due to the fact I plateu'd like a mofo at 245 when I was a vegan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
controlthebleeding Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Ill eat whatever. Vegan, vegetarian, or meat products. As long as it tastes good as I moderate what I eat most of the time. I do have a weakness for pop though. Stewarts orange cream soda is my kryptonite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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