The shittiest thing I have ever seen a label do.....

[amnstypls]

The variant debate has always been - and will always be - a heated topic on VC.  There are a few albums and artists that I've gone variant-crazy on, I'll admit it.  But not once have I purchased a colorway with the intent off making bank of of it, somewhere down the road.  It's usually to fuel the collector's itch in me: I'll like a certain colorway a bit more, or I'll like a Euro press with revised album art.  Or I'll want to snag a tour copy at a show, as a memento of sorts.  Have I sold variants for significantly more than I paid for them?  Sure have.  But more often than not, those instances have not been without considerable reluctance.  When my back is against the financial wall, you can bet that I'll part with a second or third copy of a cherished album.  Sure beats breaking apart the rest of the collection.

 

That being said, I have no problem admitting that collecting variants - especially of the pricey nature - is simply impractical.  And a waste of money, if your collection is based solely on listening.  (Settling for standard, non-limited copies on black wax and modest packaging is probably the way to go, for that route.)  But there will always be a part of the audience that's wowed by limited silkscreen jackets.  By exclusive colored variants.  By test presses.  And by all the oohs, ahs, and brag rights that go with them.  These are the people that have no shame in spending $300 on a certain Brand New variant, despite seeing more common copies of a repress for significantly cheaper.  Some people have to have it all.  And quite frankly, that's their money.  And I won't even pretend like I have the right to judge them for what they do with it.

 

Brian / sharkticon stands out, in my mind, as a respectable [ex] variant-hoarder.  Anyone who knows Brian knows that he's gun-ho about Mylene Sheath, and many post-rock releases in general.  I'm pretty sure he didn't buy eight copies of Caspian's Tertia to flip for ridiculous coin, down the road.  In fact, I believe he actually parted with many of his variants for some very fair prices -- significantly lower than eBay costs.  He collected because it was a passion and hobby of his, and I'm sure he enjoyed having the envy of fellow Mylene enthusiasts while he did.  Obviously he came to a point in his life where he decided that funds would help him more than eight copies of one record, so he broke the collection up.  No one seemed to have a problem with it... in fact, I think a handful of VC members were grateful for it.  I see nothing wrong with any of that.

 

Typically, to complete a collection that spans across multiple variants, you're looking at a good chunk of time and money.  Tracking down tour editions.  Scouring eBay for the right auction.  Accumulating represses over the years.  It's a labor of love.  And I can think of no better example than Juan and his Converge collection.  Is there anyone who really thinks he's some asshole who's collected hardcore records for 20+ years, just to make bank off all his duplicates?  I seriously doubt it.  But if he ran into hot water and had to break apart his collection for loads of cash, I don't think he'd deserved to be lynched.

 

tl; dr: collecting variants doesn't make you an asshole.  And it doesn't make you an idiot.  It's true that your money could be better-spent on expanding your collection of albums, sure.  But just because you feel the desire to own 10+ copies of TDAG, I don't think you should necessarily be burned at the cross.  I'm much more disgusted with flippers who lap up limited releases and abuse fan bases on eBay.

 

And with all of that said, I still think Iodine and their $500 copies of YFW are laughable.  Especially in trying to print up a silkscreen cover and pass it off as a super limited variant.  They're essentially trying to create a brand new (Brand New) limited edition out of thin air, just for the sake ridiculous profit.  To me, this is far worse than "discovering" a box of rare records and selling them at a bloated price.  I should snag up a few more copies of Daisy, wait for it to get repressed, and then whip up a few custom silkscreen covers for my OG copies.  Scribble some #2/3 bullshit on them with a magic marker, and then ask for $500 a pop on eBay.  Sounds ridiculous, I'm sure, but the only real difference is that Iodine can call themselves a [sketchy] label, whereas I cannot.

I think Juan is an asshole. But only because he has more Converge records than I do.

[jerseydave77]

As long as they deliver the item it beats say 6131 who sent me a record broken in half, haven't sent a replacement and now won't reply to my messages. 

[jhulud]

Juan is indeed an asshole. Fuck that guy!

[tokimedo]

Assholes DO get fucked.

[thebiglebowski]

The argument when a label sells for above retail is usually "well if they sell it for cheap, people will just buy and flip it, so why not have the money go to people who actually sorta deserve it". The coolest thing a label could do would be to seek out brand new collectors who need this and will not flip it (at least not immediately, every record gets sold eventually). What they are doing is better than just randomly selling it to people who will flip it, though.

 

Someone ask how much goes to charity on ebay please.

[thebiglebowski]

The dude that made that really shitty 1st Against Me! record found a box when they were going for well over $100 and distributed them for $10. I think most went to dudes who actually wanted it but I know a few got flipped.

[icecream]

Derrick I won't lie in the back of  my head i was hoping for a response from you because I always enjoy your input and if I felt like dedicating more time to these threads I suppose i'd elaborate more. I'd be lying if I didn't admit that i've modestly collected a few favorite bands like circa survive though i've always been lucky to obtain all of their records at retail. As you said the collector aspect will always be there yes, but it just seems over saturated to the point now where vinyl has made such a nice come back it doesn't seem nessacary anymore to make almost every indy release limited.

 

I suppose I just don't like seeing real art being cheapend like that I know it's often been compared to collecting cards but I genuinely feel like there will always be a decent niche market for music. As you've said Juan and sharkticon are people obviously in for the love  but what I was more getting at is to me ultimately anything that is related to rarity is quite often synonymous with something of value. So while that might not be the intention consciously at first for the most part I don't really see to many people holding onto something for life either.

Then if you get in a pinch for money as said did you really need that in the first place or was it just another facet  of consumerism 

I will say it's a tough line to draw.

[thebiglebowski]

The more I read this the fishier it seems. So this label released what, 20 total recordings? And as far as vinyl goes, something like this LP and a couple 7"s? How do you "lose" lps in a situation like that? I thought maybe Rev found them but that's not what it says.

[Lockieftw]

Why can't someone find boxes of Deja laying around.

[thebiglebowski]

Why can't someone find boxes of Deja laying around.

 

For $250 or whatever that goes for?

[collectivemike]

They've been finding boxes of these records for at least the last 2-3 years.... and the label has been defunct since 2003. There's a chance this guy just really was terrible at running his business and literally lost 75% of his stock of this record somewhere, but my guess is he just keeps pressing 100-200 copies whenever he needs the cash and just keeps pawning them off as the first press. Did this even come out on clear on Iodine? The copy I had years ago was black... 

[Lockieftw]

For $250 or whatever that goes for?

 

seems to be going for a little more at the moment. good point.

[Lockieftw]

They've been finding boxes of these records for at least the last 2-3 years.... and the label has been defunct since 2003. There's a chance this guy just really was terrible at running his business and literally lost 75% of his stock of this record somewhere, but my guess is he just keeps pressing 100-200 copies whenever he needs the cash and just keeps pawning them off as the first press. Did this even come out on clear on Iodine? The copy I had years ago was black... 

 

 

clear is a second press which was of 300 from memory.

[collectivemike]

clear is a second press which was of 300 from memory.

 

Got it. I didn't do any research haha but I remember there being black and blue copies way back when. Then the repress this year had a clear variant too, right? 

[Lockieftw]

Got it. I didn't do any research haha but I remember there being black and blue copies way back when. Then the repress this year had a clear variant too, right? 

 

black, blue and white were the first press. No idea about the repress having clear though.

[amnstypls]

black, blue and white were the first press. No idea about the repress having clear though.

yeah it did. tour version

[youmightbewrong]

black, blue and white were the first press. No idea about the repress having clear though.

Clear-Tour Press

[Derek™]

Derrick I won't lie in the back of  my head i was hoping for a response from you because I always enjoy your input and if I felt like dedicating more time to these threads I suppose i'd elaborate more. I'd be lying if I didn't admit that i've modestly collected a few favorite bands like circa survive though i've always been lucky to obtain all of their records at retail. As you said the collector aspect will always be there yes, but it just seems over saturated to the point now where vinyl has made such a nice come back it doesn't seem nessacary anymore to make almost every indy release limited.

 

I suppose I just don't like seeing real art being cheapend like that I know it's often been compared to collecting cards but I genuinely feel like there will always be a decent niche market for music. As you've said Juan and sharkticon are people obviously in for the love  but what I was more getting at is to me ultimately anything that is related to rarity is quite often synonymous with something of value. So while that might not be the intention consciously at first for the most part I don't really see to many people holding onto something for life either.

Then if you get in a pinch for money as said did you really need that in the first place or was it just another facet  of consumerism 

I will say it's a tough line to draw.

 

I think it's pretty arbitrary to what kind of "collector" you are.  I know a few people actually detest the idea of "collecting" vinyl.  I didn't "collect" CDs as a kid, you know?  For a lot of people, this is just their preferred medium for music.  And there's no harm in that, obviously.  Many people - myself included - would say that the world would be a better place if every release, new and old, could remain in print on just standard black wax.  Nothing would be special or rare... and subsequently, neither expensive or overpriced.  There are tons of albums, out there, that I'd love to just own a single copy of.  No bells, whistles, or brag rights necessary.

 

But at the same time, where's the fun?  You can't deny how incredible a properly constructed vinyl package is.  A crisp gatefold jacket with spot gloss finish, colored inserts, and 180 gram vinyl tinted to match the album art or packaging: there's nothing quite like it.  At that point, I think, it becomes more than just tossing the record on for the sake of music.  It's those prestigious packages and alluring variants that let the listener immerse themselves in the album.  I don't know about you, but I've definitely purchased an album on vinyl - despite having owned it for a while, digitally - and fallen in love with it all over again, thanks to extensive liner notes, elaborate packaging, and just an overall sense of "completeness" while revisiting the music on wax.  Nothing really compares.

 

But, unfortunately, it's not practical or financially possible to retain that quality for each and every press of a record.  And even limiting colorways and variants to a first or second press, one must note that there is only a finite amount of copies to obtain.  So I think it becomes a balancing act of sorts.  Do you want a product that's more or less just the music you pay for, that's readily available to the world?  Or do you want something that's over-the-top-awesome, albeit limited?  Surely, there's a healthy medium.

 

Deathwish, in my opinion, nails this dilemma.  They often release their fair share of limited and deluxe versions of albums, while [usually] allowing a cheaper, standard copy to remain in print after the dust has settled.  Me, personally; I enjoy the scramble for their limited releases.  I get a kick out of vying for rarer variants or certain colors, and there's always a bit of a thrill when "competing" for pre-orders.  Seeing who's got the quickest trigger finger, and what everyone else ends up with.  Is it all the same music, at the end of the day?  Yes.  Does any color sound better than another?  Of course not.  So in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter.  But the variants add some spice to life, in my opinion.  I can't imagine Converge's latest album being pressed on 7,000 copies of black, standard weight vinyl.  The collective "rush" to pre-order would be pathetic in comparison.  And gone would be the appeal of trading colors, completing a collection, or appreciating individual copies.  Everyone would - to no one else's surprise - receive a black copy.  Which would still be in stock.

 

I do agree that vinyl has regained enough popularity that limited pressings have become rather bothersome.  If a label knows that there's a great demand for an album or a repress, it doesn't make any sense to only press 1,000 copies.  [Assuming they can, indeed, afford to press more.  Large labels like EVR have no excuse to release timid amounts of Circa Survive represses, for example.]  That simply fuels the rarity-factor you mentioned, which then creates a headache while trying to own just one copy of an album for leisure listening.

 

As far as the final part of your post goes... I can't speak for everyone, but I've absolutely purchased records at retail price when I was "financially comfortable", and then sold them for considerable profit - years down the road - when unexpected expenses arose.  Hardly anything I can foresee, you know?  There's a gentleman selling four variants of Coheed & Cambria's IKSOSE:3 in the Sale forum, here at VC.  He's looking at $1,100 for the four of them, with a day left on the auctions.  I'm sure the dude needs the money, plain and simple.  And I'm sure he couldn't have predicted that need for the money when he bought those four copies, years back.

 

If you're splurging on rare variants and selling them a month later, though, that's another story.  I'd say that falls into the financial irresponsibility that you suggested.  And I've seen it happen, for sure.

[collectivemike]

black, blue and white were the first press. No idea about the repress having clear though.

 

Ah forgot about white. 

[nicole]

Remember when distort posted the first two alexisonfire records on eBay? They were warped and still hit nearly $500 a piece of I recall correctly.

[harryq]

Admit it or not the whole underlying reason for having a massive collection of one album on all it's pressings is at some point to sell it off when they realize the complete pointlessness of it.

 

I wholly disagree with the notion that all people who collect variants do so because of some subconscious feeling that they will sell them later.  some people waste money on expensive clothes, drinks, and going out to eat, and some people (e.g., me) buy 7 copies of dan andriano's "hurricane season".  people do things to make themselves happy, and supporting bands/labels that I like is something that makes me happy.  and since I doubt I could turn a profit by flipping those dan andriano records, I don't think that played a role in my decision to buy them.

 

that said, selling those brand new records for $500 a piece seems like exploitation; even if I absolutely loved this band/label, there's no way I could justify paying $50 for these, much less $500

[hipsterasfolk]

ahah $500 for real

 

How comes dumb things like this plagues the Brand New fanbase/labels/etc.

[tokimedo]

I wholly disagree with the notion that all people who collect variants do so because of some subconscious feeling that they will sell them later.  some people waste money on expensive clothes, drinks, and going out to eat, and some people (e.g., me) buy 7 copies of dan andriano's "hurricane season".  people do things to make themselves happy, and supporting bands/labels that I like is something that makes me happy.  and since I doubt I could turn a profit by flipping those dan andriano records, I don't think that played a role in my decision to buy them.

 

that said, selling those brand new records for $500 a piece seems like exploitation; even if I absolutely loved this band/label, there's no way I could justify paying $50 for these, much less $500

 

 

and what you have posted here is a great example of what differentiates a flipper from a collector, because the flipper would have looked at prevents COLLECTORS to buy the PO then turning around 7 copies of a record for a huge profit later as what makes them happy, instead of owning every variant to support the band and label, and for yourself. 

[cephcarn4]

I messaged the band and triple crown sending them the link - I feel the band would not want this dude to put out 100 copies with a new numbered sleeve with the intent to pocket 50K for himself. 

[Guest]

i sent an angry message on ebay, but i forget what i said. it was before drunk nap.