Sidney Crosley Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I went in to a local hifi store as I'm getting pretty close to putting together a new setup [currently old JVC, NAD pre, Kenwood receiver (total crap), Bose 201 (generally crap)]. I was chatting about basically replacing all components - I'd keep the pre if needed as it's under 3 years old and in great shape. In general, I'm looking for a roughly $1200-1500 system. The guy said two things that irked me, and is pretty much contrary to most of what I've read here and elsewhere. Any thoughts are appreciated. 1. He said that integrated amplifiers with phono in will always be inferior than using pretty much any half-decent preamp into the amp. (we're talking $300-$500 range amps and my $200 preamp) 2. He said that it's not worth getting an older high end amp, and buying new for amps is the only way to go (obviously an up-sell, but even then...) I know there's more to both statements, but any thoughts with regard to this would be appreciated. I've been looking closely through classifieds for a good quality used amp (as well as good quality used speakers and TT if at all possible, but ebay isn't a possibility at the moment because shipping to and in Canada is ridiculous). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliminator Jr. Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'd say the first statement is true, while the second one is likely a selling point as you pointed out. There's always more to it than either this or that, of course. No matter if vintage or new, there's a lot of crap on the shelves. I personally roll with used amp, speakers and new preamp, turntable and enjoyed every setup I had (although I started with ultracrap stuff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 ↑ What he said. If you're in Canada, canuckaudiomart is your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Crosley Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'd say the first statement is true, while the second one is likely a selling point as you pointed out. There's always more to it than either this or that, of course. No matter if vintage or new, there's a lot of crap on the shelves. I personally roll with used amp, speakers and new preamp, turntable and enjoyed every setup I had (although I started with ultracrap stuff). ↑ What he said. If you're in Canada, canuckaudiomart is your friend. Thanks both of you. Giving me some perspective. I've definitely been relentlessly checking out Canuckaudiomart, although haven't bit the bullet on anything (actually not totally true - had a potential amp until the really honest seller tried it out to find out that there were some issues). Possibly also considering this: http://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/city-of-toronto/record-player-and-sound-system-with-totem-speakers/1043664679?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true though it's a bit out of my price range, and I was looking for bookshelf rather than floor-standing speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domiendr Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The 6005 for that price is an awesome deal. If you can, try adding another 100 pounds to the total budget. For example, here's a cool package deal: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marantz-PM6005-Black-Dali-Zensor/dp/B00GMKXQ6C/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1420629049&sr=8-4&keywords=marantz+pm6005 The Diamonds are cool to start with, but with the low EU prices on these "budget" components it's a huge benefit to go a step up. I went with the amp but couldnt get that package, because they don't ship tot belgium. Went with q acoustics 2020i's as they werd a good deal. 400 pounds for the setup apart from the TT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyfreel Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 This is awesome. Thank you! As a noob, I am researching and learning, and have also come to find that among your list of good options at certain price points, it's not a "seen one, seen them all" kinda thing. Variation is obviously great. So, hopefully I don't drive you too bonkers with my noob questions... I feel I have to ask them, as I take music seriously, and know that you much more experienced TT audio folks have a wealth of AWESOME advice. So... I just got a SOTA Moonbeam Series II TT. Super excited. Now, I am trying to figure out what would be best for my system in terms of a phono tube preamp, and cartridge. Here's what I have: SOTA Moonbeam Series II TT B&W 686 speakers Pioneer Subwoofer Pioneer Elite VSX-40 Receiver My research has me confused as I have read different things from different people. My journey into vinyl is for numerous reasons -- I want to collect vintage vinyl; I want to hear music without any compression or remastering; I want my music warm and lively, but still highly "listenable" -- meaning not-over-the-top lively. All this said, do any of you (much more experience folks than I) have any suggestions as to what cartridge for under $300 and tube preamp for under $1,000 would be best suited for my system and hopes? Fingers crossed you are open to sharing your thoughts with me! Eliminator Jr. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 That's a really good table paired with not so great equipment. I'd focus on getting something better than a receiver, unless you're using it for 5.1 as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 That's a really good table paired with not so great equipment. I'd focus on getting something better than a receiver, unless you're using it for 5.1 as well? Firstly good choice on the table but exactly, unless you really need the surround sound capability that table is quite capable of coping with better amplification. I had a Sapphire for a short period many years ago and thought it a superbly engineered thing. What cartridge it is best suited with is down to three parameters which are arm mass and compliance and also very importantly personal preference. Their website doesn’t give any figures for the S100 arm and in the photo's seems to use an Ortofon OM5 which I would think it can do a lot better than. The arm itself does look very much either Rega influenced or even Rega made and certainly their S303 arm is an OEM Rega, so if that's the case you will have quite a choice of carts as the Rega made arms can accommodate quite a wide range. As a first stab in the dark guess going on your description of sound I would guess at either one of the better Nagaoka's or Rega's if going MM or possibly a Sumiko Blue Point if going MC but I'm sure there will be some better suggestions from people who know the table better. As to amplification if you are looking to go valve(tube) for your phonostage then you really do need a better amp to follow it otherwise you will be getting nowhere near the potential from your front end. Although Sota is a manufacturer of very nice turntables that table is their entry level and aimed at the similar Projects and Rega's as competition so I would aim that table more at one of the better solid state phonostages like the Musical Fidelity V90-LPS or possibly something from Cambridge Audio or Creek at a push which won't be such an expense but would still more than hold their own with that turntable and a decent cartridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noalarmplanet Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 What are you guys liking in the midrange section of Stereo amps currently or is Slinch's list current? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 What are you guys liking in the midrange section of Stereo amps currently or is Slinch's list current? the discounted ($400) Marantz PM6004 used to be the go-to suggestion, but the inventory is pretty dried up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadDonut Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I got an Audio Technica AT-LP120 last year and have really enjoyed it. About 5 months ago my technics receiver started acting really funny in the left speaker. As I was fiddling with it I noticed that if I slightly pressed on the top of my receiver the sound got much more crisp in that left side. Let's say I didn't want to deal with fixing the receiver and just got something new. What is the best option for the audio technica since it has a built in preamp. I really want something small to save some room on my expedit my floor speakers are wired and not RCA cables. I've been trying to search how I can use a smaller piece of equipment instead of a receiver that is almost the size of my turntable but I always get hung up on how I can plug my speakers into a smaller option. Does that make any sense or am I going crazy? I thinking like a small tube amplifier that can play through my speakers and allow me to plug in my headphones since I use both options. Does a something like that exist? If so what are the best options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 circuit bored records 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadDonut Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I can see how that can be a bit confusing. I'll have to explain my thinking with some pics when I get on a computer. Basically though, aren't small amps with the headphone jack that plug directly into your turntable for those who use headphones and small computer type speakers with rca cables? I feel sort of stupid but I can't figure it out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 You have some terminology problems to sort out. That's for sure. I think if you read up on the original series of posts in this thread, you'd be able communicate what you're looking for more clearly. That said, there are plenty of small form factor amplifiers on the market. It's a matter of figuring out exactly which features you need. Example, there are a lot of good amps that might suit your needs that don't come with a remote...is that a problem? If not, an Emotiva Mini-X A-100 along with something like the Schiit Magni-2 Uber might work out really well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadDonut Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Okay here's my last shot at this haha. Still on mobile so I'll just post links to what I'm referring to. Some turntables need a preamp and some don't right? The audio technica has a "built in preamp" so I can hook my turntable right into my receiver and then my speakers plug into my receiver to get the sound. So my turntable is being input to the receiver and the receiver is outputting to the speakers. I have that part right? So if I take away my receiver which is bulky and I'd rather have something small, can't I use a small tube amp? Like this? http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00KFGKKR2/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1421209919&sr=8-1π=AC_SX200_QL40&dpPl=1&dpID=41KSJ1WUhCL&ref=plSrch# So now my turntable plugs into the input of the tube amp but the output only works with rca cables which are these http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000UZC378/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?qid=1421210423&sr=8-17π=AC_SY200_QL40&dpPl=1&dpID=51NK%2B0tmPlL&ref=plSrch Am I still on the right track? Now my speakers only have wires like so. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006LW0WDQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1421210520&sr=8-4π=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70 So if the tube amp "amplifies" the sound of my turntable to my speakers how do I use a tube amp with speakers that don't have rca hookups? If I didn't have speakers and only ever used headphones it wouldn't matter right? The turntable is inputed to the tube amp and the amp has a headphone jack. I guess the big question is if I use a tube amp with rca output hook ups only am I going to have to buy speakers that have rca jacks? Will I need any other piece of equipment to go with the tube amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Ok. This is how it works. Turntable -> amp -> speakers Turntable uses internal preamp, connects to amp via RCA cables into RCA jacks. Speakers connect to amp via speaker cable into speaker terminal post. Look at the back of that tube amp. It has RCA jacks and those golden posts are speaker terminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadDonut Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Haha that's literally the first tube amp I found today with speaker terminals and I didn't even realize it. Thanks for the help. I haven't researched that specific product I was just finding something to post that portrayed my general idea but IF I were to buy that I wouldn't need anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Nope. All power amps, integrated amp, and receivers will have speaker terminals Preamps do not. Also there are tube preamps. Maybe that's what is throwing you off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadDonut Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 That's probably it. Really appreciate the help. It will probably be a couple of months before I actually make a purchase but nice to know what I can be looking at now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Literally still laughing after reading all of the following posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadDonut Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Literally still laughing after reading all of the following posts (Insert level 9000 Vegeta meme here) Sorry I haven't surpassed you guys in the hi-fi department.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 It was more of a joke at your English than your hifi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadDonut Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Long week over here sorry guys. My brain is fried. Just had a daughter 3 weeks ago, we have a 2 year old, and my wife has gallstones so life has been pretty interesting. It is the internet so I'll try not to be too offended. I still appreciate the help either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 It is the internet so I'll try not to be too offended. You are miles ahead of most people on the board for this statement. Congrats on the kids. Now really get your life in order with some proper audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Haha that's literally the first tube amp I found today with speaker terminals and I didn't even realize it. Thanks for the help. I haven't researched that specific product I was just finding something to post that portrayed my general idea but IF I were to buy that I wouldn't need anything else? The Amazon product description on that not-tube amp is hilarious. "This tube amplifier is the best choice for Primary HIFI friends (it's the Nobsound MS-10D Upgrated version);The best-selling and most cost-effective tube amplifier in the World. Every ten people buy tube amplifier, eight people choose him!" "1. the champagne gold wire drawing panel" what? Engrish is a little shakey. proceed with caution. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MN5NDYA/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-5&pf_rd_r=0E1BPDCJKVAKZASEMFT9&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=1970566842&pf_rd_i=desktop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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