R.I.P Hydrahead Records

[markok]

I have never ordered their albums from their site directly, only from amazon.com or ebay.com.

Just logged in at their site and the shipping to europe for one 2LP is 21.88 USD. For two 2LP-s its 35.44 USD. For three 2LP-s its 63.15 USD. And these are the cheapest shipping options.

No wonder they are out of business - no one out of USA would never order from them anyway.

[forgeagain]

you know better than i that there's plenty more that goes into the cost of a record but the pelican - australasia 2xlp represses are $33 - $38 in every local store here. thats not exactly helping the local stores carrying this release either. it was a record store day release and copies are still sitting in most stores around here. as much as i really like most of HH's releases, i feel some sort of vindication in that these high prices are a bunch of bullshit.

Yeah, absolutely, there's a lot that goes into it. Clearly these guys weren't making money hand over fist and a lot of running a label seems to be about leveraging debt these days. I don't know ANY smaller label that isn't in hock to a credit card company or something. And I'm not talking about Kickstarter license job labels. But yeah, records that expensive are just tough to sell for anybody. Who really needs the 5th repress of the 10-year old Pelican record? They clearly missed out on a few represses that would have netted them some serious bank (Botch, Cave-In). No doubt about it. But maybe there were other considerations preventing them from happening (contractual, possibly...).

No Idea absolutely does things right. But they've been around FOREVER and have their own built-in distribution. Not to mention people willing to buy 30th and 40th copies of Reinventing Axl Rose. But hey, at least they keep those zillion represses cheap.

I am all for keeping records cheap and I actually have a money-losing business model as a result. But that's why I choose to make my living elsewhere.

[BuzzersonKillwell]

Four best labels according to me. Not even close to $20.

http://www.fatwreck....cord/detail/787

http://deathwishinc....uct/DW137v.html

http://www.b9store.com/product/2802

http://www.noidearec.../chuckragan.php

Vs. Hydra Head

http://www.bluecolla...th=4_137&store=

"Housed in a classic full color die-cut DJ sleeve, the cover image of the eye is not fully realized until the record is inserted into the jacket with the LP label completing the iris. The vinyl colors equally match the aesthetic;

Maybe this isn't the best example because I know HH was generally more expensive anyway. But I'm fine with paying more (i.e. $20) if the release has some extras, like a die-cut, printed inners, stuff like that. Now, clearly this is subjective since you might just see them as gimmicks, or maybe just not worth the extra coin. I'd pay $25 all day for "Mind the Drift" by Big Business on that awesome stock.

Again, just my opinion. I'm bummed these dudes are gone.

[nihac]

Very sad news. I am a huge fan of most of the Hydrahead releases. Some stuff thas been pricey, but the quality of the pressings and especially the jackets has been amazing and also expensive to be manufactured.

I will miss the label a lot.

[youspinmeround]

Four best labels according to me. Not even close to $20.

http://www.fatwreck....cord/detail/787

http://deathwishinc....uct/DW137v.html

http://www.b9store.com/product/2802

http://www.noidearec.../chuckragan.php

Vs. Hydra Head

http://www.bluecolla...th=4_137&store=

Did you compare the quality of a No Idea record to HH. Come on now

Fat Wreck and DW are owned by artists on the label. They are much bigger than any band on HH. They tour, they sell more records, they sell more merch. This isnt intense economic theory here.

And to everyone that is arguing that records dont cost 20 normally. I goto my local stores almost every week. Merge record releases are 17.99. Epitaph releases on their site are 18 bucks. Its ok to pay 18 bucks for a Bad Religion album on a label that they own and will tour than 20 bucks for a record that the band and label have to work other jobs to support the release? 18 bucks for a new Propgandhi record that you guys are drooling over that you try and buy 3 copies of so you have every color? Are you really arguing over 2 bucks

If two dollars is a deal breaker for you on a record, i recommned think the next time you walk into starbucks and spend 6 bucks on a cup of coffee how expensive things are

[phoenixinflight]

Maybe they wouldn't be in debt if they actually re-pressed all of the records people actually give a shit about (ie: Botch, Cave In) instead of claiming you only did it because you "found" covers.

[davepriz]

This is the biggest bummer of 2012

[One Hundred Fifty-Two]

Did you compare the quality of a No Idea record to HH. Come on now

Fat Wreck and DW are owned by artists on the label. They are much bigger than any band on HH. They tour, they sell more records, they sell more merch. This isnt intense economic theory here.

And to everyone that is arguing that records dont cost 20 normally. I goto my local stores almost every week. Merge record releases are 17.99. Epitaph releases on their site are 18 bucks. Its ok to pay 18 bucks for a Bad Religion album on a label that they own and will tour than 20 bucks for a record that the band and label have to work other jobs to support the release? 18 bucks for a new Propgandhi record that you guys are drooling over that you try and buy 3 copies of so you have every color? Are you really arguing over 2 bucks

If two dollars is a deal breaker for you on a record, i recommned think the next time you walk into starbucks and spend 6 bucks on a cup of coffee how expensive things are

I prefer $1 large coffee from McDonald's based on taste and price.

You really are losing it dude. Maybe you are really distraught over this loss, but you are being irrational. Did I bring up Epitaph? Did I bring up Starbucks? Sure Hydra Head puts a lot more into their packaging, but that was their decision. No one forced them to have die-cut eyeball jackets. Plenty of labels have great packaging, but that didn't ensure their success over a sustained period of time.

Deathwish had large gatefold jackets that look pretty nice to me. Bridge Nine uses spot gloss on a lot of their jackets for a standout feature. No idea will put out records on 100 colors, that is a unique feature to their packaging. Fat Wreck builds a lot of excitement with their pre-order colors, tour only, in-store only colors. There are a lot of less costly ways to put out quality releases.

$2 isn't necessarily a deal breaker, but if I can get two releases for the price of one I'll gladly do that.

[fitterhappier]

RIP HHR

Definitely one of my favorite labels of all time. Countless amount of amazing releases.

I guess the only good news is that this makes it more likely that we see represses of OOP stuff.

PS. I demand an Isis reunion, make it happen Aaron!

[mxv]

They had great taste in music and I loved that label for a very long time until they priced me right out of being a customer. A 4 song 12" single for 20 - 25 dollars before shipping was just wallet rape and insulting. Clearly they priced a lot of people out of being customers with those prices and the fact they are going out of business. Yeah they had great packaging and everything but so does other labels selling their releases an average of 5 - 10 dollars cheaper.

[jared]

Well, they're having a sale going on at realtomatoeketchup right now. For $20 + shipping you get 4 randomly chosen records(lp, 2xlp, 12". 10" or maybe dinged copies) 10 posters and whatever else they have lying around.

http://www.realtomatoketchup.com/product/hydra-head-grab-bag-4-vinyl-10-posters

I'd say that's a pretty good deal

[forgeagain]

This is the biggest bummer of 2012

I really hope you mean "in terms of the record labels that I enjoy," because there is plenty of worse shit out there right now.

[vinylmaus]

I thought $20 was a standard price for vinyl these days...

Whenever I can get something for $15 incl shipping...I'm super excited. But I usually expect to pay $20 retail for something that I really want.

[One Hundred Fifty-Two]

I thought $20 was a standard price for vinyl these days...

Whenever I can get something for $15 incl shipping...I'm super excited. But I usually expect to pay $20 retail for something that I really want.

Yeah retail, they are 20+ straight from the label.

[vinylmaus]

Yeah retail, they are 20+ straight from the label.

Do you expect some sort of discount for buying straight from a label? If so, how would distributors and record stores make money?

If collectors and enthusiasts are really bitching over a difference of less than $4-$5, then there's a serious problem with those collectors and music enthusiasts. No one's forcing you to purchase the music and $20 really isn't unreasonable...considering the time when CDs used to be $17 a pop.

[One Hundred Fifty-Two]

Do you expect some sort of discount for buying straight from a label? If so, how would distributors and record stores make money?

If collectors and enthusiasts are really bitching over a difference of less than $4-$5, then there's a serious problem with those collectors and music enthusiasts. No one's forcing you to purchase the music and $20 really isn't unreasonable...considering the time when CDs used to be $17 a pop.

I do expect a discount, because every other label sells their records directly to the customers for cheaper than retail price. Once again I'm not complain about 4-5 dollars. The examples I gave were 10-12 vs 21 so a 9-11 dollar difference.

Distributors make money by getting a wholesale discount from the label, even lower than customers. They make money by adding their markup. Someone can help me out here, but I believe No Idea sells their records wholesale for like $7. So stores do have an advantage. They choose their own markups to cover their costs and make a profit, but running a retail location is more expensive. When you are buying a record in a store the customer doesn't have to pay shipping so they are willing to spend more.

Example I buy 1 LP from No Idea + 10 record + 3 dollars shipping. I pay $13.

Vs.

Store buys 1 record for 7 dollars + 5 dollar markup. I pay $12.

So wholesale = $7 straight from label=$10 retail=$12

[One Hundred Fifty-Two]

Do you expect some sort of discount for buying straight from a label? If so, how would distributors and record stores make money?

If collectors and enthusiasts are really bitching over a difference of less than $4-$5, then there's a serious problem with those collectors and music enthusiasts. No one's forcing you to purchase the music and $20 really isn't unreasonable...considering the time when CDs used to be $17 a pop.

And the well they used to be $17 argument is so logically flawed and is a huge reason for why the music industry is struggling.

[jhulud]

I like how each and every single Hydra Head thread...regardless of what it starts about...become then a bitch session about their prices and then everyone's scientific breakdown of record prices with statistics and data.

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn...talk about beating a dead horse...

And now it truly is a dead horse with the label's end.

[mattisr1984]

"dont like it? dont buy it." i guess people listened. thankfully, ive got most the back catalog that id want on vinyl already. for those that dont, ya better hope theyve got plans to follow thru on the botch represses, etc.

[beatnik11]

For people actually suggesting that $20 for a single LP is not only reasonable, but the average price, I really have to wonder where you folks are shopping. The only thing I can think of is insound.com because they are easily one of the most overpriced sites on the internet. I am going to use http://www.invinylwetrust.com as an example, I choose this site because 1) I dont feel like linking to all sorts of over sites as well 2) my local record stores do not have decent internet sites and 3) because I find their prices to be reflective of what I see in my local record stores and most internet retailers dealing with vinyl. Just go into the LP section and you will find that the VAST majority of LPs are under $20 and here are some examples, Propagandhi - Failed States which someone suggested retails for $18 only costs $15.99, the Archers of Loaf albums which recent got re-released on vinyl also cost 15.99 a pop, and even the super "hipster" popular band Animal Collective has albums Feels and Sung Tongs which are both 2xLP only cost 15.99.

20 Dollars for a single LP is completely overpriced over the average and what is even worse is that HH records are $20+ from the actual label which is theoretically the cheapest possible place you will be able to obtain these albums because they are being shipped directly from the source without the mark up from a middle man. I think HH has some truly amazing bands on their list like Pelican, Isis, Jesu, OMG, Cave-in, but its no shock to most of us why HH is dying, fancy packaging aside, they just priced most people out of being customers. People say whats the big deal with an extra 4-5 bucks or that if you dont like it then dont buy it... well guess what, it evidently was a big enough deal and people didnt buy it, thats why they are going under.

[youspinmeround]

For people actually suggesting that $20 for a single LP is not only reasonable, but the average price, I really have to wonder where you folks are shopping. The only thing I can think of is insound.com because they are easily one of the most overpriced sites on the internet. I am going to use http://www.invinylwetrust.com as an example, I choose this site because 1) I dont feel like linking to all sorts of over sites as well 2) my local record stores do not have decent internet sites and 3) because I find their prices to be reflective of what I see in my local record stores and most internet retailers dealing with vinyl. Just go into the LP section and you will find that the VAST majority of LPs are under $20 and here are some examples, Propagandhi - Failed States which someone suggested retails for $18 only costs $15.99, the Archers of Loaf albums which recent got re-released on vinyl also cost 15.99 a pop, and even the super "hipster" popular band Animal Collective has albums Feels and Sung Tongs which are both 2xLP only cost 15.99.

20 Dollars for a single LP is completely overpriced over the average and what is even worse is that HH records are $20+ from the actual label which is theoretically the cheapest possible place you will be able to obtain these albums because they are being shipped directly from the source without the mark up from a middle man. I think HH has some truly amazing bands on their list like Pelican, Isis, Jesu, OMG, Cave-in, but its no shock to most of us why HH is dying, fancy packaging aside, they just priced most people out of being customers.

You joined just to comment

An internet site as invinyl does not have the overhead that a regular record store has. They can sell things cheaper to get you to purchase it and still make a profit. He doesnt have the same stock, utilities, and overhead that a normal store does.

Hydrahead is a label who is obviously selling records based on their cost factor. Look at most distros, they dont contain HH releases

[vinylmaus]

I do expect a discount, because every other label sells their records directly to the customers for cheaper than retail price. Once again I'm not complain about 4-5 dollars. The examples I gave were 10-12 vs 21 so a 9-11 dollar difference.

Distributors make money by getting a wholesale discount from the label, even lower than customers. They make money by adding their markup. Someone can help me out here, but I believe No Idea sells their records wholesale for like $7. So stores do have an advantage. They choose their own markups to cover their costs and make a profit, but running a retail location is more expensive. When you are buying a record in a store the customer doesn't have to pay shipping so they are willing to spend more.

Example I buy 1 LP from No Idea + 10 record + 3 dollars shipping. I pay $13.

Vs.

Store buys 1 record for 7 dollars + 5 dollar markup. I pay $12.

So wholesale = $7 straight from label=$10 retail=$12

I'll start off by saying that I've never heard of No Idea Records nor have I heard of Hydrahead records before.

There's a mark-up two times by the time a record gets to a retail store: when the distributor sells it to the store and when the store sells it to the consumer. The price that the distributor sells to an individual store is usually set at a minimum as directed by the record label. So in between the entire process, one should expect a markup of at least $7 from the wholesale price.

Now, you can't assume that all labels are able to sell at a wholesale price of $7. I mean, it depends on how much is pressed and I would have to imagine that since HHR is a label specializing in limited edition releases and most of the artists there are unknown to most people, they are going to have to pay more per pressing due to pressing lesser quantities compared to a label like No Idea which has less obscure bands like Against Me, Hot Water Music, etc.

Part of the price possibly also has to do with how big the operation is. Graveface Records is a pretty small operation, and so that is somewhat reflected into the price. So for HHR to charge however much they charge is prob due to the amount of overhead and employees that they have to pay (which would ultimately mean that them going out of business is a result of possible unwise decisions).

But back to the the pricing of LPs, it seems as though HHR really tries to make each release special with gimmicks and stuff. Some people may say that's unnecessary, but it seems that maybe such gimmicks allow them to sell well with the particular target audience that they're going for (doom metal bands or w.e tend to have the weirdest LP packaging/covers). It seems like No Idea Records puts out primarily punk records, which usually have less gimmicky packaging, less elaborate art covers, and covers that are primarily photos.

Personally, I have only purchased 4 records that were over $21, and that was because shipping was from Canada. Most of the records I have fall between the $15-$19 range (shipping included). This may not be important to my argument, but I'd just add my two cents that if I feel that an item is overpriced...then I simply don't buy it. I usually have a target price in mind for every release out there (which fluctuates depending on the quantity of records pressed for that particular release).

And the well they used to be $17 argument is so logically flawed and is a huge reason for why the music industry is struggling.

I only brought up the $17 argument to show that it really isn't too much to pay $17 for a LP when we were paying $17 for a CD. Now, we have to realize that LPs in general are still a niche (no, vinyl is not making a full-fledged come back)...and so record usually aren't pressed more than 10,000 units (just a guess) for the first run and that usually doesn't sell out for years. So ultimately, it's still going to cost a record label a lot to press a record in a very limited quantity.

Oh, and of course don't forget prices for everything have risen up (gas, food, housing, etc)...and so that drives up prices for most things (either directly or indirectly).

/Rant

[Guest deathbydrums]

sux

repress botch we are the romans

i sold my damn copy cuz it fed baby and baby mamma for weeks

[xlovecolouredx]

i didn't support hydra head too often but appreciate in most of their release....

[jlobban]

as someone that owns a ton of their releases, and honestly admits they helped shaped my musical taste growing up: i still cant believe this didn't happen 6-7 years ago.

"hey lets release one good record a year and then dump a shit ton of money into a record NO ONE WILL BUY HAHAHA. we will be so hip our pretentiousness will save us from death"

eyeroll.