Steubenville, Ohio High School gang rape cover up

[dreamover]

how is being a convicted rapist and being a registered sex offender getting off easy?  Those kids lives are (rightfully) ruined by just that alone.  Maybe the min detention is low, but being in jail until 21-24 is still 5 - 8 years depending on the child, but Rape cannot be expunged from juvenile court records, and removing the "sex offender" is near impossible.  So heres the thing, filing in juvenile court means they dont have to have a jury, and the visiting judge rules the decision and penalty.  charging them as adults opens up having to have a jury hear the case, and while the penalty for rape in ohio is 10 - 25 years min, to life, there's no way to know, definitely, that the jury will decide for the victim.  its shitty to say, but thats my take on this. 

 

these kids don't even realize they've done anything wrong. the one apologized for sending out the pictures and apologized to his fucking football fans for letting them down. i just can't imagine being at a party where a bunch of kids are parading around an unconscious drugged girl while "performing sexual acts" and asking people to pee on her. there's people who  did nothing about it and people (adults!) who worked hard to cover it up.

 

just disgusting.

[dreamover]

I find it rather hypocritical of people on my facebook feed saying how awful rape is, yet, think these two guys should be raped in jail.  just disgusting. 

 

of course that's wrong.

 

colleges and high schools teach girls not to get in tough situations and to blow whistles and pepper spray, but no one is teaching boys not to fucking rape.

 

this shit really pisses me off.

[futures]

these kids don't even realize they've done anything wrong. the one apologized for sending out the pictures and apologized to his fucking football fans for letting them down. i just can't imagine being at a party where a bunch of kids are parading around an unconscious drugged girl while "performing sexual acts" and asking people to pee on her. there's people who  did nothing about it and people (adults!) who worked hard to cover it up.

 

just disgusting.

 

This.

 

I read that yahoo sports article and I can't believe that these kids were just chilling in a basement while that Mays kid was exposed and the other boy was violating the poor girl and nobody thought "heyyyy... this doesn't seem right..." Like seriously? It blows my mind.  It really makes me wonder how many times these kids have done something like this to be so numb to it and to not think to do anything about it.  Sickening.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

these kids don't even realize they've done anything wrong. the one apologized for sending out the pictures and apologized to his fucking football fans for letting them down. i just can't imagine being at a party where a bunch of kids are parading around an unconscious drugged girl while "performing sexual acts" and asking people to pee on her. there's people who  did nothing about it and people (adults!) who worked hard to cover it up.

 

just disgusting.

 

I *think* the african american kid realizes what he's done wrong.  the white kid doesnt.  but the other kid, definitely. 

 

the worst part of it is the passiveness the "friends" who were there, who were given "immunity" for their testimony against these two, had in person.  the text messages they sent AFTER THEY LEFT saying "dont rape her" should have been said IN PERSON AT THE PARTY.  It probably wasnt because of the whole "jock superiority/imortality" that the football program has over that area...

[Guest]

I *think* the african american kid realizes what he's done wrong.  the white kid doesnt.  but the other kid, definitely. 

 

Thought the same while watching the videos this morning. He admitted he ruined her life.

 

The white kid was just like 'uhh yeah sorry for sending those photos.'

[dreamover]

anyone who doesn't think these kids wouldn't have done something like this again if they got away with it is crazy.

 

and the fact that so many kids were given immunity when they could've stopped it or called the police is a crime in itself.

[GradedOnACurve]

 

Also how about that coach! http://deadspin.com/why-does-steubenvilles-football-coach-still-have-his-j-455800918

[harryq]

This is fucked up. minimum one year in detention? And CNN says "the worst part part about it is they have to register as sex offenders"? Oh those poor rapists.

 

one question (not necessarily directed at you): why is it a big deal that CNN says things like "it sucks that those guys ruined their lives by raping that girl", but no one flips out when a teenager goes to jail for shooting someone and similar things are said?  for instance, this great article from the star tribune.  yes, that article talks about the victim, too, but CNN can't really do that here for ~privacy reasons.  is "digitally penetrating" a passed out girl while you're drunk worse than murder?  and, yes, I'm sympathetic to the 16 year old kid in that star tribune article, despite the fact that he killed someone.

 

not saying these dudes don't deserve to be punished -- they seem pretty douchey to me (especially the white guy, based on his "sorry for taking pictures of you" comment) -- but I think it's fine to mention that their punishment is more than a few years in jail or whatever.  and as for the non-sexual stuff they did (e.g., peeing on her), isn't that kind of humiliation stuff sort of par for the course when it comes to people who pass out at parties?  I don't drink or party (i.e., I'm a loser), but that seems like the kind of stuff that if it happened to a guy, everyone would be all "OMG! LOL!" about.  and just to be clear, peeing on anyone is bad, I'm just ~surprised that everyone's acting so shocked that that would happen at a high school party.

 

and as for the "rapist" term, I don't really see these guys as rapists (again, just because I don't label them as "rapists" doesn't mean I think they're angels).  that seems more appropriate for guys who jump a girl in an alley, rather than dudes who were young, drunk, and stupid and did some fucked up things.  after all, we have murder and we have manslaughter, not to mention different degrees of those, so it doesn't really make sense to me to just have an umbrella term like "rapist".  and instead of putting them on a sex offender registry, wouldn't it make more sense to put a stamp on their driver's license that says "Do NOT sell/provide alcohol to this person"?  isn't that the real reason this happened (or at least one of the primary reasons, in the sense that alcohol seems to affect your ability to say "wait a minute, that's a bad idea...") and a better way of preventing future crime?  are these guys such a risk to society that they shouldn't be allowed to live within 100 yards of a school or a park?  and speaking of which, why isn't there a murder registry?  I'd much rather live in the same apartment complex as a guy who fingered a girl while they were both drunk than a guy who killed someone...

 

that was a lot more than I intended to write, but that happens a lot.  I'm also very opinionated, but this is the internet and I mean well.  to recap, I'm glad these guys are going to ~jail, and I hope they and the girl get their lives together.  I'd also like for steubenville to shut down their football program for a couple of years, a la what should have happened to penn state, and crack down on underage drinking hardcore.  punish the town for encouraging this kind of behavior.  unfortunately, neither of those will happen, the football team will still be viewed as gods (assuming they win games), 16 year olds will still get wasted and bad shit will still happen, and everyone will still be like "how do these things happen?!?  didn't we ship out those evil rapists?!?"

 

okay, I'm done.  commence flaming in 3, 2, 1...

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

we do have different terms like murder and manslaughter, ones called sexual assault, the other is rape.  

[Guest]

one question (not necessarily directed at you): why is it a big deal that CNN says things like "it sucks that those guys ruined their lives by raping that girl", but no one flips out when a teenager goes to jail for shooting someone and similar things are said?  for instance, this great article from the star tribune.  yes, that article talks about the victim, too, but CNN can't really do that here for ~privacy reasons.  is "digitally penetrating" a passed out girl while you're drunk worse than murder?  and, yes, I'm sympathetic to the 16 year old kid in that star tribune article, despite the fact that he killed someone.

 

not saying these dudes don't deserve to be punished -- they seem pretty douchey to me (especially the white guy, based on his "sorry for taking pictures of you" comment) -- but I think it's fine to mention that their punishment is more than a few years in jail or whatever.  and as for the non-sexual stuff they did (e.g., peeing on her), isn't that kind of humiliation stuff sort of par for the course when it comes to people who pass out at parties?  I don't drink or party (i.e., I'm a loser), but that seems like the kind of stuff that if it happened to a guy, everyone would be all "OMG! LOL!" about.  and just to be clear, peeing on anyone is bad, I'm just ~surprised that everyone's acting so shocked that that would happen at a high school party.

 

and as for the "rapist" term, I don't really see these guys as rapists (again, just because I don't label them as "rapists" doesn't mean I think they're angels).  that seems more appropriate for guys who jump a girl in an alley, rather than dudes who were young, drunk, and stupid and did some fucked up things.  after all, we have murder and we have manslaughter, not to mention different degrees of those, so it doesn't really make sense to me to just have an umbrella term like "rapist".  and instead of putting them on a sex offender registry, wouldn't it make more sense to put a stamp on their driver's license that says "Do NOT sell/provide alcohol to this person"?  isn't that the real reason this happened (or at least one of the primary reasons, in the sense that alcohol seems to affect your ability to say "wait a minute, that's a bad idea...") and a better way of preventing future crime?  are these guys such a risk to society that they shouldn't be allowed to live within 100 yards of a school or a park?  and speaking of which, why isn't there a murder registry?  I'd much rather live in the same apartment complex as a guy who fingered a girl while they were both drunk than a guy who killed someone...

 

that was a lot more than I intended to write, but that happens a lot.  I'm also very opinionated, but this is the internet and I mean well.  to recap, I'm glad these guys are going to ~jail, and I hope they and the girl get their lives together.  I'd also like for steubenville to shut down their football program for a couple of years, a la what should have happened to penn state, and crack down on underage drinking hardcore.  punish the town for encouraging this kind of behavior.  unfortunately, neither of those will happen, the football team will still be viewed as gods (assuming they win games), 16 year olds will still get wasted and bad shit will still happen, and everyone will still be like "how do these things happen?!?  didn't we ship out those evil rapists?!?"

 

okay, I'm done.  commence flaming in 3, 2, 1...

 

there's no reason to flame. i definitely appreciate your entire stance.

 

the thing that just seems to be so alarming is the fact that so many people in our country have such a ***fucked up*** view on rape. this is just a high-profile case, so regardless of the fact that its circumstances deviate from the form of rape that we're familiar with, it's still putting people's and networks' ass-backwards views on the limelight.

 

 

if you rape someone, you are a vile being. if you cover-up for a rapist, you are not far behind. and if you blame the victim, you are pretty much the worst.

[bigbruise]

I agree with what most people are saying, including Dreamover,  that what CNN and other news sources are saying is pretty fucked up. They committed rape, they should burn. 

 

But... my old roommate, years ago, would ALWAYS watch To Catch A Predator. Now those dudes are fucking sick, trying to have sex with a child is beyond fucked, and they should spend their life in prison and have their lives ruined. But, it was soooo hard watching man after man have his lively hood ripped away from them. Finally one day I told him, I can't watch this anymore, it's depressing as shit to see these grown men have their lives fucked. They completely deserved it, it's just hard to watch. 

[chamb117]

after all, we have murder and we have manslaughter, not to mention different degrees of those, so it doesn't really make sense to me to just have an umbrella term like "rapist". 

 

rapist isn't a legal term, though. sex offender, etc. is more appropriate. rapist is a slang term, so to speak. it's probably not in a network's best interest to refer to anyone as a rapist (in my opinion) even if he or she is a rapist, especially if the network uses different terminology among rape incidences.

 

the whole thing is really fucked. i also blame the kids at the party for doing anything, but i understand why someone people may not because of the phenomenon of responsibility diffusion (and also how fucked up kids are to each other, who were probably more afraid to damage how their friends perceive them than to report the rape). it probably falls more on the latter, but the bystander effect can sometimes still be very prominent. however, i have no sympathy for those who covered up for the offenders. unbelievable.

 

i appreciate what henry rollins said about implementing "total" sex education. kids and young adults should know not only how your body works and what happens to it but the legal repercussions of rape, public indecency, etc.

[dreamover]

http://m.wtov9.com/news/news/breaking-news-2-arrested-connection-threats-jane-d/nWwmd/

[Guest]

quality

[bigbruise]

Jesus

[harryq]

http://m.wtov9.com/news/news/breaking-news-2-arrested-connection-threats-jane-d/nWwmd/

 

my thought process when clicking that link

 

I go on the super long rant above and now some more guys are being assholes?  seriously?

[reads the first line]

[rereads the first line]

[reads the rest]

[rereads the first line]

[rereads the article, making sure "victim" does not refer to the two bad guys]

wtf?

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

 

I think why this was also tried in Juvenile Court was to protect the identity of the victim.  If they try them as adults, she has to be questioned by both sides in front of the jury, and that would/could/probably be very traumatic for her, and could lead to more threats like the ones the article above referenced.   

[Guest]

do people still think anything they do on social media is private?

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Saw this blog post earlier, if you want to do something that will actually make a difference in the name of the real victim in this horrible situation, she has asked people to donate to the Madden House, a shelter for abused women and children in the area where she lives. Here is a link to the blog post that explains everything in more detail and links to the page to donate via Paypal:

http://createourownlight.tumblr.com/post/45684185068/steubenvilles-jane-doe-asked-people-to-do-something

Here is a direct link to the donation page: http://ywcawheeling.org/madden-house-donations/

They are asking to leave the message “In the name of Jane Doe, Steubenville.” in the note attached to the donation as they are letting her know how many people make donations in her name. I can't think of a more powerful way to show one's support by honoring Jane Doe's request and letting her know how many people stand beside her.

 

[lonesomexloveus]

and as for the "rapist" term, I don't really see these guys as rapists (again, just because I don't label them as "rapists" doesn't mean I think they're angels).  that seems more appropriate for guys who jump a girl in an alley, rather than dudes who were young, drunk, and stupid and did some fucked up things.  after all, we have murder and we have manslaughter, not to mention different degrees of those, so it doesn't really make sense to me to just have an umbrella term like "rapist".  and instead of putting them on a sex offender registry, wouldn't it make more sense to put a stamp on their driver's license that says "Do NOT sell/provide alcohol to this person"?  isn't that the real reason this happened (or at least one of the primary reasons, in the sense that alcohol seems to affect your ability to say "wait a minute, that's a bad idea...") and a better way of preventing future crime?  are these guys such a risk to society that they shouldn't be allowed to live within 100 yards of a school or a park?  and speaking of which, why isn't there a murder registry?  I'd much rather live in the same apartment complex as a guy who fingered a girl while they were both drunk than a guy who killed someone...

 

i can't wrap my mind around people who think this way. 'well they were drunk so that's why it happened! they shouldn't be called 'rapists' cuz alcohol was involved and it was all just good fun! it wasn't like they had nefarious intentions!' rape is rape. violating someone sexually against their will, whether it happens at a high school party or whether someone jumps some random stranger in an alley somewhere. period.

[steventangent]

Not to mention this was premeditated and done to "punish" her. How much more rapey can you get?

[jeffnovak]

i can't wrap my mind around people who think this way. 'well they were drunk so that's why it happened! they shouldn't be called 'rapists' cuz alcohol was involved and it was all just good fun! it wasn't like they had nefarious intentions!' rape is rape. violating someone sexually against their will, whether it happens at a high school party or whether someone jumps some random stranger in an alley somewhere. period.

 

Absolutely. That is a mentality that I can't understand. It seems that a lot of people don't have a grasp on what rape is. "Oh, she didn't/couldn't say no..." that is rape/sexual assault. It doesn't matter if alcohol was involved or not, it doesn't matter if the victim has a reputation as a "drunk" or a "slut," if anything in non consensual in any way, it is assault. 

 

Richmond seems to be starting to see the levity of the situation. Mays seems absolutely confused on why what he did was wrong. People need to be re-educated on sexual assault. I can't just blame it on the whole small-town-football-god mentality either.

[daegor]

Alcohol can remove inhibitions, it does not however create motivations.  In other words, it's only a catalyst.  Those things you do when you're drunk... you DID want to do them.

 

As much as many of us would like to deny it, it's true.

 

What's been said here by many is correct, it's re-education that's the issue.  It's wrong to do those things, alcohol is not to blame, it's not because she was a slut, whatever.

[controlthebleeding]

Alcohol can remove inhibitions, it does not however create motivations.  In other words, it's only a catalyst.  Those things you do when you're drunk... you DID want to do them.

 

As much as many of us would like to deny it, it's true.

 

What's been said here by many is correct, it's re-education that's the issue.  It's wrong to do those things, alcohol is not to blame, it's not because she was a slut, whatever.

 

this.

[harryq]

i can't wrap my mind around people who think this way. 'well they were drunk so that's why it happened! they shouldn't be called 'rapists' cuz alcohol was involved and it was all just good fun! it wasn't like they had nefarious intentions!' rape is rape. violating someone sexually against their will, whether it happens at a high school party or whether someone jumps some random stranger in an alley somewhere. period.

 

apparently I wrote too much and my message became unclear, so here's a shorter version in bold, for emphasis:

 

horrible people do horrible things, but doing a horrible thing doesn't necessarily make you a horrible person.  replace "horrible people" with "rapists" and so on, and you'll get my point.

 

just because I don't consider these guys to be rapists doesn't mean what they did is any less bad, nor does it imply that the blame isn't squarely on them (as opposed to partially blaming the girl.  I suppose technically I'd place some blame on society as a whole, but that's overthinking things).  and if I find out that either of these guys has a history of rape, I'll be sure to bump this thread, retract that statement, and declare them a "person who commits rape" (note that it says "commits", suggesting multiple times, and not "committed", once in the past).

 

and as for the alcohol part, yes, it's a catalyst, but I'm not sure what the motivations here were (particularly the activities that took place at the house when the girl was passed out).  were they sexual or more to degrade/humiliate?  I don't know about you, but I've never thought after sex "damn, that sex was great.  now if only I could pee on her...", while humiliating the person who just passed out at a party seems pretty standard (and in this case, taken to a criminal level).  either way, it's wrong.  no argument there

 

edit: one more thing and then I'll shut up.  the news reports about these guys having good grades and promising futures and whatnot make an already sad story (a girl being raped) worse.  it's easy/convenient/comfortable to think that evil things (e.g., rape) are only done by evil people (e.g., "rapists"), but when you allow yourself to realize that "good kids" can do horrible things, that's when shit gets real.  it's uncomfortable, and that's why I'm glad the news reported it.  I'm not saying these guys are/were "good kids", but still