jerseydave77 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 And yes, these kids are weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Hey Dave - I have a lawyer friend who works in the US Patent and Trademark office ... and he actually happens to be a longtime fan / supporter of the punk and hardcore scenes, so he takes a particular interest in copyright law as it pertains to music. In regards to this statement: "there was no way for the rights holders of Freaks and Geeks to have claimed your use of those two clips could in any way have harmed the value of their product." He told me that generally speaking, a sample that is worth using has some broader value to a larger whole. If it didn't help convey a message within the song, there wouldn't be a point in using the sample in the first place. Beside that, it doesn't really matter if using the samples hurts / helps the F&G product or not. The point is that the clips don't belong to us, and if we want to use them, we'd have to get them cleared. Unfortunately we weren't able to make that happen. Even if we were, who knows how much it would have cost us. My lawyer friend also has some interesting opinions about samples in general, the most poignant being that there has never been a band he's loved that has made an impression on him through their samples. For the most part, I gotta agree with him. I love Dikembe and I love Freaks and Geeks; but that doesn't mean that throwing an F&G clip at the beginning of a Dikembe song makes it any better. In fact, hearing the new masters without the samples just makes me appreciate Dikembe even more. Of course, we also understand that there are people who feel a real attachment to those songs with the F&G samples. For that reason we're going to continue to give away the old versions for free ... at least until someone slaps a 200K fine on the band. jerseydave77 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 My lawyer friend also has some interesting opinions about samples in general, the most poignant being that there has never been a band he's loved that has made an impression on him through their samples. For the most part, I gotta agree with him. I love Dikembe and I love Freaks and Geeks; but that doesn't mean that throwing an F&G clip at the beginning of a Dikembe song makes it any better. In fact, hearing the new masters without the samples just makes me appreciate Dikembe even more. I admit my copyright and Fair Use knowledge is far stronger in relation to use in film as opposed to music. I agree with the above so when you boil it down to that it isn't worth challenging copyright since the work stands on its own without the samples. I frequently run into situations where a piece of say, News Footage, is essential to telling a characters story in the context of one of my films. The rights holder denies me a license or sets the price so high it is prohibitive. I am actually within my rights, as is my client, to use that footage even without that piece of permission. It gets complicated and this is obviously a very simple example. I am actually really curious how the concept/argument of "Transformative Use" in the realm of Fair Use Doctrine might translate into a sample in a song like this. I'm sure your friend is spot on but now I have to hit up a couple colleagues for their opinions since this changes weekly. Thanks for this really kind and thoughtful response. It gives me something to think about in my professional considerations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shitty Rambo Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The Freaks And Geeks clips are completely unnecessary and add no value to the overall music. I'm sure Tiny Engines will use their time and money to work on more important things. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintedinexile Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Glad to see Broad Shoulders is getting repressed. Totally missed the boat on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The Freaks And Geeks clips are completely unnecessary and add no value to the overall music. I'm sure Tiny Engines will use their time and money to work on more important things. . I think you missed the point of my back and forth here. And I already grasped and agreed with his opinion on the creative value. Anyway, still an exciting case for me to consider for my own work - I appreciate Chuck's thoughtful reply as situations like this are important to what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyhi Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 i keep poppin' in here hoping to see a link to buy it but all i see is words words and more words. thepunkguy and paintedinexile 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokimedo Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Dikembe introduced me to freaks and geeks, actually. Had never heard of it before I heard Chicago bowls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtw88 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Dave, yeah, it kinda sucks, but it is what it is. Like Chuck said, he and I discussed it for a bit and consulted someone with more knowledge than ourselves, and the general consensus was to just stay away from using them. Everything I've read about Fair Use and transformative use basically says it's a crap shoot where you don't find out if you are in the legal right until after you've been sunk with hours of work and lawyer fees. nyhi, I don't anticipate a preorder going up for a couple of weeks. I've had a few people tell us that we introduced them to Freaks and Geeks, which is awesome and rewarding. jacktownjim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debyrne82 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I've got the clear with blue smoke and someone would actually have to kill me to get it from me. Sorry everyone it's just that cool. I don't collect variants but I kind of wish I did with this band, but that first cassette split would be impossible to find now. jacktownjim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Ryan - I err on the side of caution anytime something has little overall impact on the final product. If it's true that the sample didn't really relate fully to the song then you had a weak argument in all likelihood. If you are ever in a bind again hit me up, I have a couple of the top people in the field that work Pro-Bono as they are positioned at Universities for these very reasons. Legal fees are wicked. With the films I sent you a while back, there is vetted Fair Use footage in each and there is also stuff that had to be cut from the films. It's an oddly fun part of my job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidamnesiac Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The real question is: where can I get lossless digital of the remastered version without samples? Sometimes I just want to skip the dialogue and jam. Shitty Rambo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipsterasfolk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 F&G should be honored to be included on this masterpiece. Poseurs gonna' pose PS Where is my Broad Shoulders Sloth cover?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zick Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 F&G should be honored to be included on this masterpiece. Poseurs gonna' pose PS Where is my Broad Shoulders Sloth cover?? 2nd press has sloth milk mixed in the vinyl dedlee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtw88 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The real question is: where can I get lossless digital of the remastered version without samples? Sometimes I just want to skip the dialogue and jam. This will be available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipsterasfolk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Shreddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidamnesiac Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 This will be available. Stoked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsoncomplex Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Bump for awesomeness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipsterasfolk Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'll chime in so I can use this pic again :] hudsoncomplex and Zick 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtw88 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Sidenote: Preorders for our CYLS split with Hightide Hotel, Monument, and Jet Set Sail go up next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtw88 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I'll chime in so I can use this pic again :] We did a recorded interview while we were on tour last year with a couple of guys, and one of them had convinced the other one before the interview that it was pronounced chicago bowels instead of bowls and I'm pretty sure everyone involved in the interview was quite inebriated. It was really fun, but unfortunately I never heard of it coming out. I actually don't think any of the recorded interviews we've done have ever come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipsterasfolk Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Wait till you guys sell out $$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shitty Rambo Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thought it was up for PO. Conned again by a fucking sloth bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipsterasfolk Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Exciting news! Next Wednesday, Absolute Punk will be streaming the new CYLS 4-Way split. For those of you keeping track, this is number three. The first two are still available in our webstore. This one features Dikembe, Hightide Hotel, Jet Set Sail, Monument! We will also be taking pre-orders. Available on black or gold. Here is what the cover looks like: Since for some reason no one had posted this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shitty Rambo Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Hightide Hotel, they're pretty good. Pretty Pretty Pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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