dobyblue

Well the new high res remasters have been well taken care of, they’re not fully dynamic like the Hoffman SACD remaster of RATM’s debut which IMO is hands down the go to mastering of that excellent album, but while Undertow has lost some dynamics it’s at least on the same level as Ludwig’s original 1992 mastering of RATM which predates the loudness wars by a couple years.

The unfortunate thing is, Ludwig doesn’t cut lacquers in an all analogue chain anymore. While I keep my fingers crossed that perhaps Ludwig mastered the digital and they sent at least the first two album’ tapes to someone like Grundman (which happened with the recent Eric Clapton 45rpm Vinyl, Bob did the digital and Bernie cut and mastered the vinyl AAA) or Kevin Gray to master AND CUT from the tapes for the vinyl, it seems unlikely...which would be a shame given how receptive Adam Jones was to the notion of doing Undertow and AEnima AAA.

If the remastered catalogue is all done for vinyl by Bob then the high res downloads will be the source material, and while they sound good and thus so too will the vinyl, I can’t bring myself to pay extra for an additional step in the chain.

Not to take away from the excitement of the new album tho!

Hopefully they will also go backwards with dynamic range compression and give us a fully dynamic mastering like Undertow and AEnima and not the atrocious mess that was the mastering found on the new APC record. "Sounds shittier the louder you turn it" is not the motto I want on my Tool purchases.

If indeed the remasters arrive and the first two albums are both AAA done with one of today's best all analogue lacquer cutters and pressed at Optimal or RTI etc., we will get no contest the definitive editions of these albums (as far as fans of stereo mixes go)

I bet it's called "Undertwo"

3 minutes ago, dantheriver said:

You fucked up!

I’m almost 50, it happens. 

Don’t see anything, must be a site blocked by our firewall at work. Facebook comes through and showed 29 mins ago, sorry for the double post!

Well, well, well, lookie what Tool's social media channels just posted:

With TDS I can't comment on the vinyl as I never picked it up but if it was done at PallasDE I expect it's nice and quiet and centred properly. I did acquire the high resolution digital cutting files and I found the mastering to be similarly "hot" like the rest of the them, The Fragile is the only one I got a copy of the 3LP to have and I did eventually sell it. It was a gorgeous thing to behold.

I was in the throes of extreme NIN fandom when TDS came out in 1994, saw them live that summer for the first time then again that December. I listened to that CD so often in the first few years after release, rage hard! I have found the surround mix is so beautifully done, it's hard to listen to any mere stereo version now. That buzzsaw sound at the end of Closer, careening around the room 270 degrees from the front left speaker disappearing off off to the right wall? Pure genius!
 

My bad, I only meant to type "poorly mastered", additionally typing "pressed" was finger memory burn-in. The pressing quality itself is actually pretty definitive unlike the job United did with Hesitation Marks, it's only the mastering for me that isn't my cup of tea. Unfortunately where I listen to vinyl is where this type of mastering affects my enjoyment of the music the most, whereas I don't really notice aggressive dynamic range compression in the car so that's where I listen to things like Hesitation Marks, etc.

For me the addtional clarity of the remastering is offset by the loudness/compression but it's not like the original CD is any better, lol. It's why I was so looking forward to the surround mix as typically multichannel mixes are not subject to the same aggressive mastering moves as the stereo releases.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the existing 2017 being definitive for you, it's all subjective.
Rawk on!
\m/ \m/

On 3/7/2019 at 7:41 PM, youspinmeround said:

Remember when we were going to see definitive editions of with teeth and year zero.............................

I already have what will be my definitive edition as I love the 5.1 mix on the DVD-Audio side of the DualDisc version, but remember when we were going to get the definitive "Deluxe Edition" of The Fragile? Let's briefly remind ourselves of the timeline.

2005 - TR mentions The Fragile will likely get the same DE treatment as TDS in a q&a on the old NIN site
2009 - November, Rob Sheridan tweets "Spent the afternoon revising the nine inch nails Fragile Deluxe Edition prototype with A+R. Now it'll be a month before we get the next one." (Artists in Residence did a bunch of the Ghosts issues, they kind of suck for quality control though, all the 5.1 mixes of The Pixes they did were stereo upmixes and the Death Cab for Cutie "Barsuk Years" set had multiple labelling issues, so probably good thing AinR didn't get to do The Fragile)
2010 - on October 15th 2010 Alan Moulder announces in a Q&A session on Pro Sound Web that he's working on a 5.1 mix of The Fragile
2011 - November, TR confirms the 5.1 mixes are "done" and the package will be "available soon".
2014 - TR mentions in a NZ interview " You know, we've mixed everything in surround, it sounds amazing, we have a great package ready to go. "

F'n sucks to know Alan Moulders 5.1 mix is now 7 years in the can and still not released, and the existing "definitive" vinyl release is poorly mastered.

Of course we also have the Blu-ray of the Tension 2013 tour announced in early 2014 for a "Spring 2014" release, changed a little later (2015 maybe) to be a multi-show live release featuring some of the 2014 stops and possibly four different shows....it's 2019 and that's nowhere to be seen.

Believe me I know I'm not entitled to anything, but I'm champing at the bit for both of these currently in stasis releases.

On 3/23/2019 at 1:20 AM, Pure Phase Girl said:

Would anyone have a spare mono pressing of this they would wish to sell to me?

Go to Acoustic Sounds' Facebook page, they have 25 copies they are going to give away to 25 winners they choose from the comments based sharing your favorite personal Hendrix memory - fave song, concert, album, whatever. You don't have to have been alive when Hendrix was obviously, to have a fave track or album.

Worth a shot!

On 11/21/2018 at 5:46 PM, unknown pleasures said:

It’s amazing what a difference there is between records pressed in the era of vinyl-as-an-afterthought when no one cared about mastering and the vinyl was made from recycled plastic cups & the era of vinyl-as-a-main concern when all attention is paid to sound quality.

 

So many records from the 90s - ironically, many of which are so coveted because of scarcity - probably had no right to be pressed on vinyl in the first place with what little care was given.

Sadly the "all attention is paid to sound quality" is only true of releases like the ones from intervention Records, Analog Spark, ORG Music, MFSL and Analogue Productions...most of the time the major labels are releasing the exact same sonic shyte as the digital downloads.

I have a few titles from Shane's team at Intervention and they're all AMAZING. From pressing quality to mastering to jacket, just unbelievably great. What a shame this isn't the standard.

 

That's a shame they're not using the Sean Magee AAA cut, I expect they'd have mentioned it being "cut from tape" if it was AAA.
The Analog Spark release is absolutely definitive in my book - but look forward to hearing if someone with both does a comparison.

Shame Universal aren't doing a 5.1 Blu-ray with the super deluxe digital physical editions, they're pretty much the best major label for chucking in new surround mixes.

On 8/23/2018 at 11:23 AM, swb said:

The short answer is that Mint means everything (audio, surface appearance, etc) is absolutely perfect, so, if everything isn't absolutely perfect, it is not Mint.

The longer answer is that Mint means everything (audio, surface appearance, etc) is absolutely perfect, so, if everything isn't absolutely perfect, it is not Mint.  All joking aside, no one can really argue whether a record with visible scratches is or isn't Mint, because it's clearly not. What they can do is rope you into a sub-argument about whether it matters, whether it means you only care about looks and aren't an actual music fan, etc etc. 

IMO, when people use Mint, they are using an unofficial abstraction of the grade that basically means "NEW" or "Hey, this looks practically new, gimme a break over here!" and they do it because they want to sell their record quick and for as much as they can get for it. There are also some sellers who might be genuinely naive to the standard grading definitions or who have developed their own grading system pre-internet and everything above VG is Mint to them, etc.

If I'm selling a record, whether it's brand new or only played once or 100 years old, and it plays with no surface noise but has visible scuffing, it is VG+. I'm not a huge bulk seller but I sell a fair amount of records and I've had no trouble moving VG+ graded records that are priced well. I've never had anyone contact me to say I overgraded a VG+ record but I have had people (nicely but incorrectly) tell me the record was way better condition than VG+. Someone left a review once that said "LP was better than Mint!" which seems impossible but was a nice feedback comment. 

I sort of agree with the opening line in that you can use "SS" (Still Sealed) instead of Mint for a record that's still sealed, because then you can't verify the surface condition of the record or play-grade it. Without a "SS" grading you'd have to list most records from United Record Pressing in Nashville as "PLONF-POF-SCOPTM" (Possibly Loads of Non-fill, Possibly Off-centred, slim chance of playing to mint)

lol

On 6/4/2013 at 4:47 PM, noname said:

 

No, we have been complaining about the ruination of our music for several years now.

 

Every reissue I can think of sounds like shit.  Nirvana Box Set, shit. PJ Ten reissue, shit.

 

Amazingly, there just appeared a new 24/96 remaster of The Devil Put Dinosaurs Here and it has slightly more dynamics than the original CD of Dirt did! What a surprise, and shows that the compression is all the work of Ted Jensen as the producer (Nick Raskulinecz) didn't bake the shitty dynamics into the mix files.

Here's "Stone" original mastering on top, new remaster on bottom...and yes, to the ears it SOUNDS fantastic as well, as you'd hope.

I only list records as MINT if they're sealed, because MINT means brand new.
If it's a UK record that didn't come sealed as is the case sometimes, I list as NM and use the description to note that it has never been played but was never sealed.

Always best to grade conservatively OR as close to Goldmine as you can.

I would have no hesitation to return the item if it was listed as MINT but has a large scratch on one side, that is NOT mint.

9 minutes ago, timsimmons said:

Nah, Ive seen his posts here and at other forums and I've found him annoying. 

 

Well ti msi m mons my pedigree chum, those two words have very different meanings. Perhaps you should consider using the ignore function, I certainly would if I found someone insufferable; annoying I can handle.

12 minutes ago, AnimosityDK said:

How so?

Because...

29 minutes ago, ZeroNowhere said:

I never said I didn't like him.  The way he acts makes me not want to like him.  I would like more information, but beyond the tweet, some of what I have read makes me think he's a giant sleaze.  Keep putting words in my mouth, though, if that's what makes you feel better.  I'm not here to argue with some neanderthal on the internet.  I posted a link / article because it's obviously going to come to everyone's attention much sooner than later.  Sorry if that makes you sad.  Welcome to the internet, big guy.

lol

37 minutes ago, ZeroNowhere said:

I never said I was mad, I just stated he's a filthy human being.  Maybe you are too and that's why you find his behavior acceptable.  The more you know!

1 minute ago, ZeroNowhere said:

Beyond this person's tweets, he sounds like an absolutely filthy human being who could give a shit about his fans and is primarily focused on getting his dick wet.  If that doesn't sound like sex addiction to you, then I'm not sure what would.  

You mad bro?

Also:

It's not true. OK, so I'm just another guy on the internet, but I've had the privilege of getting backstage on more than a few separate occasions for both Tool & APC. I am somewhat well known taper, been to 103 Tool shows, and 50+ APC shows, 20+ Pusicfer shows. I've got the passes to prove it, I was even given one of the Maynard harem passes because they were out of the standard ones. I also have had 2 female friends (age 20 & 23 at the time) pass muster and get to sleep with Maynard and have gotten all the details. One ended up being a repeat contact because she lived in LA and could participate with him there when off tour.

• 1. First off, there is and was no blonde heavy set woman who acted as his handler for this. Women do receive special passes, but they were handed out from his all male security staff.
• 2. The security staff checks IDs. If you are not of age, you do not get to go backstage. 17, though "legal" in some states, does not make the cut. Full stop.
• 3. Passes for Maynard are different than the normal backstage pass for the show. A couple examples I can think of (and one I own that I received personally when they were out of normal ones) has a collage of women in KISS makeup sucking dick or other sexual acts. An APC one had a picture of Maynard in Roman garb that said "Have you serviced your gladiator today?" or something similar. There are no illusions about what you are there for.
• 4. All backstage people are brought backstage to 1 or 2 rooms. Sometimes the Maynard groupies are brought to a separate room. It's never 1 woman alone. The smallest group I saw was 5 or 6 women, but could be up to 20. Maynard makes an appearance in the room, might make some chitchat, and then leaves. His security staff will then approach whichever 1 or 2 women that Maynard has selected for the night and tell them that Maynard would like them to come back to the bus or the hotel for the night.
• 5. Both experiences recounted to me, from two women who do not know each other, Maynard was caring, slow and gentle. There was no pressure. He is interested in anal as you would assume, but did not with the one because she never had. Again, no pressure. This act ended up happening later when she was one of his regulars in LA.
• 6. After the act, both women had nothing but good things to say about him and about the security staff (Making sure they were OK to leave the area and had some transportation as they left).

So you take those 2 accounts, and also what I saw happen in general with the process other times backstage, make the accusers account incredibly hard to believe. For the guy down below in the thread who's girlfriend was weirded out for not letting her BF backstage with her, I hope you understand by now that Maynard does not and will not meet normal Tool fans. Never. Has he appeared at any of the Tool clinics? No. Has he ever appeared at any of the APC VIP events? No. I only met him once backstage and he was not thrilled with my concert total. Actually told me that I shouldn't see them that many times. The meeting only happened because I was in with a group of family for another person on the crew. I haven't been backstage since he's been married, so I don't know if his groupie whoring has continued. I don't think he should be demonized for this behavior. Yeah it sucks that he doesn't want to meet the casual fan to have them gush over his music, but it doesn't make me want to listen to them less.

Adam's newest Instagram post shows they're recording and mixing to analogue tape.
\m/ \m/

On 14/12/2017 at 8:38 AM, Sasan said:

Oh, you should definitely check'em out! Gavin played drums on his first solo album...on TRTRTS & H.C.E. it's Marco Minnemann, who is a freaking beast! I love Gavin's drumming but kudos to Marco Minnemann, he's incredible!

 

Agreed! Tracks like Routine and Home Invasion, terrific drumming. I love the HCE album, even the more atmospheric stuff like Perfect Life sounds bloody terrific in surround.

Other than 10,000 days, the masterings of all the Tool albums on CD have been excellent and have avoided The Loudness Wars, and even 10,000 days is still nowhere near the dynamic range compression levels we see on NIN and Red Hot Chili Pepper records...they've done a really good job with mastering. Hopefully that won't change on the new album.

However for those that don't have $400 to plonk down on AEnima on vinyl, the idea of getting one pressed at one of the top houses mastered by someone like Grundman, Bellman, RK Smith, Gray, etc., cut directly from the original analogue master, it's hard not to get excited.

If they're done properly and they do a box set, day one preorder for me.

I went through two US copies (2006, using the same lacquers as the 1999 release) of Undertow and they both stunk compared to the CD. I listened to the shit out of this album when it was released, as an angry 19 year old sometimes with a brain full of acid, it is a deeply personal album for me...would love a copy on my turntable that does it (the album) justice.

On 07/12/2017 at 1:23 PM, danyc said:

Obviously people have been crying for a Deadwing repress for ages but the label and PT said it wasn't going to happen. Clearly they were bullshitting us. I already have both of these, but the Deadwing is tempting. I so hope for everyones sake that buys Deadwing that it sounds as good as the OG pressing, cause that one sounds amazing! Can't imagine SW letting an inferior product out though. 

People on FB were saying the shipping rates are insane, so I might wait it out until these are available in the states somehow. 

The label wasn't going to do anything, Steven mentioned as much in a Q&A on Quadraphonic Quad a few years ago:

Dec.14.2014 - Hello folks

Firstly, I'm very glad you enjoy these records. In Absentia especially remains an album of which I'm very proud. Unfortunately as the sound recordings are owned by Warners, and they seem neither interesting in revamping them, or allowing anyone else to license them to do the job, at present any kind of reissue of these 2 albums seems rather remote.

S

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?18341-Will-In-Absentia-or-Deadwing-be-Reissued

Now that Kscope has the rights to these albums Steven has been able to remaster them for vinyl without the ugly loudness wars mastering found on the existing stereo masterings. No doubt they're going to sound fantastic.

Suck it Warners!

 

Confirmed that AEnima was recorded and mixed entirely analogue (mixed to 1/2" tape) whereas Lateralus multis were transferred to ProTools and then mixed to 1/2" tape. So the possibility for a new AAA release of AEnima is certainly there.

In order to do Lateralus AAA they'd need to remix the album, I don't see that happening - but if they cut it directly from the unmastered 1/2" stereo mix then we could still get a bloody brilliant fully dynamic release of Lateralus as well.

Fingers crossed that magic will occur.