WAXXX Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, daegor said: No, he's not literally Hitler, no where near that. I was just being an asshole turning your quote around. The one thing that he's proven, from my perspective, by opening his mouth, is that he's very ignorant. And that ignorance leads to him being very xenophobic, racist, misogynistic, islamophobic, and homophobic. Actually, not just buzz-words. 'Like every other person on the planet'?? You either hang out with the worst people, or are one of the worst people. you act like you've never offended someone with something you've said. offending someone doesn't make you bad person. people are creating an environment where saying the right thing takes precedent over doing the right thing. it's sick. you feel comfortable judging me and everyone i hang out with by mere internet statements. you know nothing about the people i help in life. the people i accept. the sacrifices i make to help others overcome disadvantages. TFP, Tommy and Shitty Rambo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFP Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 "Lip Service" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, WAXXX said: you act like you've never offended someone with something you've said. offending someone doesn't make you bad person. people are creating an environment where saying the right thing takes precedent over doing the right thing. it's sick. you feel comfortable judging me and everyone i hang out with by mere internet statements. you know nothing about the people i help in life. the people i accept. the sacrifices i make to help others overcome disadvantages. I heard Trump's going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. WAXXX and stl_ben 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy_raygun Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) 36 minutes ago, harryq said: I heard Trump's going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. That's nothing compared to his tax plan. Which is one of the main reasons I'm convinced I won't vote for him. He wants to put a 15% cap on corporate taxes, under the guise that this is for mom & pop shops. Which is a total fabrication, because most small businesses already pay less than 15% in corporate tax. But that 15% cap is going to mean that Walmart will be paying hundreds of millions less in taxes each year. Which the average small business might end up paying only a couple thousand, at the most. He also wants to abolish the estate tax, which as it stands only applies to estates worth an excess of $5.45 million. I just don't see how we could possibly invest in social programs and social welfare when so much of our tax base would be disappearing. Edited June 24, 2016 by nancy_raygun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shitty Rambo Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 hour ago, daegor said: 'Like every other person on the planet'?? You either hang out with the worst people, or are one of the worst people. If someone says they never ever have marginally racist thoughts or say offensive shit from time to time they're straight up lying. Man, if you guys had to work in my industry your heads would explode. Everyone (male/female) busts balls and nobody gets their feelings hurt, yet we care about each other like family. You also have to realize that many of us darker skin folks don't get offended so easily. Personally I get more offended when hardcore PC allies try and soapbox for other races/orientations. It comes off like you're implying anyone who isn't white/straight is unable to stand up for themselves. This isn't exclusive to me either, quite a few of my gay and black friends feel the same. WAXXX and Tommy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAXXX Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 10 minutes ago, nancy_raygun said: That's nothing compared to his tax plan. Which is one of the main reasons I'm convinced I won't vote for him. He wants to put a 15% cap on corporate taxes, under the guise that this is for mom & pop shops. Which is a total fabrication, because most small businesses already pay less than 15% in corporate tax. But that 15% cap is going to mean that Walmart will be paying hundreds of millions less in taxes each year. Which the average small business might end up paying only a couple thousand, at the most. He also wants to abolish the estate tax, which as it stands only applies to estates worth an excess of $5.45 million. I just don't see how we could possibly invest in social programs and social welfare when so much of our tax base would be disappearing. keep in mind that the current corporate tax rate (34% and higher for any business income over $335,000) is assessed in addition to all personal income tax (15-40%), FICA tax (6.2%), and FICA match (6.2%) on all payroll employees. for partnerships like mine, i pay almost $1 to the government for each $1 i get to actually keep. this doesn't even include things like health insurance or sales tax. i'm not sure why you think small businesses only pay a couple thousand per year. also keep in mind that the largest firms in the nation are legally avoiding their current corporate tax rate by storing cash in off-shore havens. if the corporate tax rate was lowered, it stands to reason that companies would pay out more cash in the USA at the 15% rate instead of avoiding paying it altogether by storing cash overseas. abolishing tax havens is never the answer, as it will never be possible. there will always be some nation that will step up and facilitate the haven. estate tax is nothing more than a penalty on being rich. we need to foster a climate of jobs and self sufficiency instead of relying on people who actually create wealth to support us. our current social programs are a disaster. the people who could actually use the money get pennies on each dollar that is paid into the programs. it would be better for everyone to actually fix the broken system, than to keep the broken system and raise taxes even higher. the US gov is currently pocketing $3.5 trillion dollars per year from american workers and are mismanaging it every step of the way. TFP and Tommy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAXXX Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 even if you don't believe building a wall along the border is a positive for america, you are absolutely crazy if you think everything at the US/Mexico border is fine and dandy. cartels are currently trafficking residents from central and south america into the USA at a ridiculous rate (40% higher than it was in 2014). these cartels are brutal. they kill at an alarming rate. they are selling women into sex slavery and everyone they deal with becomes generally less safe. immigration and border security is a serious issue and it shouldn't be disregarded or reduced to labels like "racist" or "xenophobic" so easily. Tommy and TFP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, WAXXX said: even if you don't believe building a wall along the border is a positive for america, you are absolutely crazy if you think everything at the US/Mexico border is fine and dandy. cartels are currently trafficking residents from central and south america into the USA at a ridiculous rate (40% higher than it was in 2014). these cartels are brutal. they kill at an alarming rate. they are selling women into sex slavery and everyone they deal with becomes generally less safe. immigration and border security is a serious issue and it shouldn't be disregarded or reduced to labels like "racist" or "xenophobic" so easily. It's not that black and white dude. The boarder is clearly fucked. The wall will clearly do nothing to help that situation. Edited June 24, 2016 by daegor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 2 hours ago, WAXXX said: you act like you've never offended someone with something you've said. offending someone doesn't make you bad person. people are creating an environment where saying the right thing takes precedent over doing the right thing. it's sick. you feel comfortable judging me and everyone i hang out with by mere internet statements. you know nothing about the people i help in life. the people i accept. the sacrifices i make to help others overcome disadvantages. You touched on the key point here. Sure, I've said things that are offensive (though nothing as far as I'm aware that would fall under any xxxxphobic category). However, the difference between a reasonable person who says something offensive and an unreasonable or ignorant person that says something offensive is the ability to recognize that they said or did something offensive and rectify it. Trump shows no recognition or remorse for his offensive actions and statements, that is ignorant. When you're a politician, saying the right thing matters, a lot. More than doing the right thing? No, but nearly equal shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAXXX Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, daegor said: It's not that black and white dude. The board is clearly fucked. The wall will clearly do nothing to help that situation. if you love the US/Mexico border so much, then go live in a border town. places have become shit holes that no one wants to touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Shitty Rambo said: If someone says they never ever have marginally racist thoughts or say offensive shit from time to time they're straight up lying. I'm pretty sure I haven't since I was a teenager (my memory isn't that good though). It doesn't offend me, being offended is a useless reaction to anything. Stereotyping bothers me because you're limiting the potential of whatever sphere of influence is involved. So, if you're the President, you'd be limiting the potential of your country. Mars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, WAXXX said: if you love the US/Mexico border so much, then go live in a border town. places have become shit holes that no one wants to touch. I'm not saying that's not the case, just that the wall will do nothing to resolve that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAXXX Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, daegor said: Trump shows no recognition or remorse for his offensive actions and statements, that is ignorant. When you're a politician, saying the right thing matters, a lot. More than doing the right thing? No, but nearly equal shares. i disagree. i think you will see trump begin to show more recognition and remorse. as much as i think saying the right thing is nice, it's nowhere near equal when it comes to doing the right thing. you can talk about helping people all day, but if you don't actually help them then you've done absolutely nothing. Edited June 24, 2016 by WAXXX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAXXX Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Just now, daegor said: I'm not saying that's not the case, just that the wall will do nothing to resolve that situation. most trafficking happens by walking and driving people through the desert and across the border. you can go down there and see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 minute ago, WAXXX said: i disagree. i think you will see trump begin to show more recognition and remorse. as much as i think saying the right is nice, it's nowhere near equal when it comes to doing the right thing. you can talk about helping people all day, but if you don't actually help them then you've done absolutely nothing. I hope your right about Trump. And you are totally right about saying one then and then doing the opposite. Trump is nothing if not sincere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, WAXXX said: most trafficking happens by walking and driving people through the desert and across the border. you can go down there and see it. Yes. The wall won't stop that, I'd be surprised if it's ever finished, and I'm sure it won't be patrolled enough even if it was to stop anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAXXX Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 13 minutes ago, daegor said: Yes. The wall won't stop that, I'd be surprised if it's ever finished, and I'm sure it won't be patrolled enough even if it was to stop anything. what do you propose? walls work and have been built in other countries. not everyone gets a sweet secluded mansion on the beach with armed secret service agents on hand like hillary: Tommy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 32 minutes ago, WAXXX said: what do you propose? walls work and have been built in other countries. Walls haven't really worked anywhere as far as I'm aware, do you have any examples? (real question) I'm no politician, so obviously I don't have much valuable input into something like this (none of us in this thread do) but common sense dictates that developing a better, stronger relationship with Mexico should help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 35 minutes ago, WAXXX said: not everyone gets a sweet secluded mansion on the beach with armed secret service agents on hand like hillary: As if it's any different than Trump's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I swear Trump is a plant to make Hillary seem like a reasonable option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy_raygun Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 2 hours ago, WAXXX said: also keep in mind that the largest firms in the nation are legally avoiding their current corporate tax rate by storing cash in off-shore havens. if the corporate tax rate was lowered, it stands to reason that companies would pay out more cash in the USA at the 15% rate instead of avoiding paying it altogether by storing cash overseas. abolishing tax havens is never the answer, as it will never be possible. there will always be some nation that will step up and facilitate the haven. estate tax is nothing more than a penalty on being rich. we need to foster a climate of jobs and self sufficiency instead of relying on people who actually create wealth to support us. our current social programs are a disaster. the people who could actually use the money get pennies on each dollar that is paid into the programs. it would be better for everyone to actually fix the broken system, than to keep the broken system and raise taxes even higher. the US gov is currently pocketing $3.5 trillion dollars per year from american workers and are mismanaging it every step of the way. You're very wrong about that tax thing. From what I read, you claim that a 15% flat corporate tax would incentive corporations to cease using tax havens or loopholes in order to avoid taxation, thereby increasing the tax revenue. Walmart definitely avoids paying their taxes as much as they can. One of the ways they do so is by taking advantage of tax havens, as you mentioned. Meaning that they move revenues/profits into other corporate branches overseas where the tax rate is substantially lower. This sucks, this creates an unfair advantage for Walmart versus small business. And it's totally unethical considering that it's pretty well-known that a huge proportion of Walmart's staff need to supplement their income with social welfare programs. But on their 2016 financial statements for the US it very clearly shows that they had $21B in income before taxes and paid $6.5B in taxes. 31%. Technically they should be paying 35%, but they use loopholes to reduce their percentage liability. Cutting this number to 15% and then believing that there's so hypothetical way of removing all corporate tax loopholes so that it's actually 15%, you have still lost $3.35B in tax revenue, and that's just one company. You talk about fixing the broken system. I don't see it as broken. One thing that bothers me really is the "Make America Great Again" slogan. It's like, fuck off, America is great. I like it here a lot. It's not a utopia and it never will be, but we're all working pretty hard and things are going pretty good for most of us. You know what won't make America great? Cutting the tax rate literally in half for billion dollar corporate giant companies. daegor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy_raygun Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I honestly hope I'm wrong about this tax thing and someone can set me straight, because it's bothered me for months that I haven't heard anyone talking about it. The way I read his plan, it sounds like one of the most reckless and short-sighted tax cuts in history. Like, Reagan would look at that and go, holy shit dude what are you doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shitty Rambo Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 WAXXX and The Vool 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAXXX Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 hour ago, daegor said: Walls haven't really worked anywhere as far as I'm aware, do you have any examples? (real question) I'm no politician, so obviously I don't have much valuable input into something like this (none of us in this thread do) but common sense dictates that developing a better, stronger relationship with Mexico should help. here is the wall that a german company is building for saudi arabia (ironic that they are one biggest hillary donors): here is another wall in israel: i think the USA should have a great relationship with mexico (the best relationship), but mexico needs to fix shit in their own country. they are powerless in the face of the drug cartels (massive corruption) and the USA is paying heavily for the mess. Tommy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAXXX Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 hour ago, daegor said: As if it's any different than Trump's he's not being a hypocrite tho. trump knows you need walls and security to protect your shit. sweet pad. nancy_raygun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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