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Anyone Know Anything About Paranormal Shit?


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Not reading the long ass posts but 2 dudes died building my house in 2003. Both in early 20s. One was in a crane that touched a power line, the other tried to save him. No spooky stuff yet. But I guess they technically didn't die in my house? I don't know. Maybe my roof is haunted.

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  • 3 months later...

I got the shit scared out of me last night. Nothing weird has ever happened to us where we currently live, but something woke me up at exactly 3AM last night (according to my wife and the internet, that's when all the spirit crap goes does). It sounded like my oldest daughter opened her bedroom door, ran to our bedroom door, and then pressed against it. The first initial sound woke me up so I sat there waiting for her to open our door and crawl into our bed, but then I heard footsteps slowly go back to the other end of the house and figured maybe she changed her mind about trying to sleep with us because it's something we try and not let her do often now that she's older. A couple minutes later I heard the running again and the weight against our bedroom door, this time I got up and opened the door and nothing was there. I thought it was our cat but it was sitting on our bed. I checked on the kids, all the doors, windows. Looked in every closet and shower. Nothing was different then any other night. Took me about 3 hours to finally fall back asleep. Curious to see if anything happens again tonight.

PS: If you like creepy stories this one from Liam Lynch (Sifl And Olly) always freaks me out, fast-forward to 00:55:07.
http://www.nerdist.com/2012/10/nerdist-podcast-neil-degrasse-tyson-returns/

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A couple years ago my grandma who i was extremely close with passed away. It was pretty sudden and she lived in a area that was not quickly accessible to me so i wasn't able to be with her at the time.

 

My grandma was always very spiritual, she would always say how a place had bad energy or good energy. We also have a cabin that we would go up to a couple weekends a month when i was a kid and when we would leave she would make us say a native american prayer and do some drawing in the dirt w/ a stick and not lock the doors.

 

I've never been much a lucid dreamer and very rarely remember my dreams and never have nightmares. Anyways, one night i was dead asleep and started having a dream that i was in my dads garage going through some old boxes cause he was moving at the time. I was at the end of the garage by myself and started hearing a voice behind me saying "hello..... hello" it wasn't threatening by any means but i could clearly tell it was my grandma and when i turned around i was standing face to face with her and she said hello again. Once this happened i started crying and kinda freaking out trying to yell for my dad to come outside, at the same time i was actually doing this in my sleep.

 

My girlfriend woke me up because it freaked her out. I told her what happened and she was convinced it was my grandma coming to me in my dream and she felt terrible for waking me up. But i was definitely freaked out to the point where i could not fall back asleep for hours.

 

She hasn't came to me since and i know she wasn't trying to scare me but damn it freaked me out. Oh yeah it happened at 3am also, which is considered the witching hour, when spirits are most active (in regards to the post above).

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Cool story Rambo.

 

Has anyone heard of A Blood Red Sky? http://www.abloodredsky.com/  It's a film by Chad Calek the guy who did Paranormal State.  It looks like it may be hit or miss, but it's coming to my town and looks interesting so me and one of my friends are going to see it.

 

This movie is "literally mind-blowing." That's your clue the movie is a complete pile of shit.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Dogs bark at stuff, that's what they do, they bark when they hear the wind, some bark at their own shadow. They are warning you that something is around. What that 'something' is could be nothing serious at all. I would wager that there is no ghost, but the more you believe there is one the more things you will notice and convince yourself something is up. Your dog might be picking up on something I doubt it's a ghost. Their senses are more acute than ours. You could even be giving off weird vibes and he is picking up on that.

I once moved into a house, when I first moved in, it was just me and then then the other 2 guys moved in 1 month later. I lived in the house completely alone for a month, completely empty. I also showered in cold water every day for a month cause we had no hot water, and also no fridge and no stove. Other than a lack of amenities, I never noticed anything out of the ordinary... fast forward about 2 months. So I'd been there 2 months now and the other 2 dudes for 1 month...

One of the guys got a job working retail nearby, he worked with a guy who lived down the street from the place we moved into... so they got to chatting at work and the guy decides to fuck with him, I guess, and tells buddy who lives in our house... 'Yeah man the old people who lived there before died in that house, that house is haunted.' The part about the death in the house could very well be true, I think it was. I believe it was an older couple that lived there before we moved in, but the part about the haunting was pure speculation and I think the guy made that up just to have a conversation piece. Like 'oh yeah I live down the street from you and your house is haunted.' Just to mess with him, or talk about something remotely interesting.


So he comes back and tells us this, already convinced the house is haunted and we both laugh at him. It became so easy to fuck with the guy we didn't even have to do anything. The furnace would start up and he would get all jumpy. No way was this place haunted, I lived there alone for a month in an old empty house. The house was OLD ... old style locks and old furnace vents, so it made weird noises all the time, it was just an old house. The type of creaks and groans that old houses have, nothing more. But this guy was so jumpy after being told that people died there that he wouldn't sleep at night and me and the other guy thought it was funny how mental he went over it, so we'd mess with him to sketch him out even harder. One time we told him 'Hey man, better watch your asshole tonight, that ghost is gonna rape you in your sleep' Dude was like 25 years old and he screamed and ran away and was like 'screw you guys, that's not funny I don't wanna get raped by a ghost.' Like he legit thought there was a ghost and the ghost was gonna rape him in his sleep. Guy was none too swift.

It was all in his head, and that made it so much easier to mess with him, there was no haunting, no ghost, it was just an old house. But he was convinced, so to him there was a ghost, and he was legitimately scared, me and the other guy just thought he was really dim, we never saw any evidence of anything, and like I said I lived there completely alone for a month in a big empty house, it was actually pretty cool. Until I got a proper bed I slept on an air-mattress in the living room, had the whole place to myself.

The fact that he thought it was haunted made it even more real to him, to me and the other guy it was just an old house. The general consensus was that the house was just old. Buddy was just a spazz, all he did was play WoW and drink Coca-Cola and pine over chicks we'd have over. All around weirdo. I dunno, maybe ghosts exist I can't say for sure one way or the other, but there were none in that place.

If you think there is one you should probably do something to make yourself at ease about it, like maybe just clean up and make it more comfy, try and give it a better energy. Maybe some of that would help your dog chill, too. If you believe in ghosts, maybe try channeling with your dog and telepathically ask him what's up? Channeling with animals is easily more real than ghosts.

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Bumping this again. If anyone hasn't read through these, please do. Hands down one of my favorite threads on this board.

One of my faves too.

 

This morning when I woke up the door to my bedroom was open.  I know that I closed it before going to bed because that's what I do every night, and when I asked my roommate about it he said that when he got up for work this morning it was open.  He gets up at 6 in the morning for work and is usually running late and too tired at that point to try to do anything to mess with me.  Also this morning the light in our kitchen wouldn't turn on.  Then later tonight when I went to turn it on, after trying multiple times during the day to turn it on, it worked like nothing was ever wrong.  This has never happened before, and nothing strange has ever occurred in the 9 months that we've been living in this apartment. Not saying it's paranormal related by any means, but some strange happenings for sure.

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Man you guys have some fucked up shit happen. I'm not really a believer in paranormal stuff, but if any of this happened I would freak the hell out. Only thing that ever happened to me was this one time I crashed at my buddies house cause I had no way home. He lives right next to a cemetary (which is apparently haunted?) but anyway, i couldn't sleep. I've always had trouble falling asleep anywhere but my own house, I don't really know why, I just don't feel comfortable. I just remember it was about 3:30 AM and I heard this weird rumble in the distance. It got a little bit louder and all the sudden the dog started running out of the room and the room started shaking. Now, I'm assuming this was an earthquake, but the rest of the night the dog just kind of stared at me and stood there. I asked about 4 of my friends who were awake if they felt anything, and they said they didn't feel anything. There was also this earthquake website that didn't say there was any activity. But this felt like a pretty big shake, enough to jolt me almost off the couch. It's probably more a coincidence then anything, but one of those things that kind of freaked me out. Timing must've been right, I guess.

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Man you guys have some fucked up shit happen. I'm not really a believer in paranormal stuff, but if any of this happened I would freak the hell out. Only thing that ever happened to me was this one time I crashed at my buddies house cause I had no way home. He lives right next to a cemetary (which is apparently haunted?) but anyway, i couldn't sleep. I've always had trouble falling asleep anywhere but my own house, I don't really know why, I just don't feel comfortable. I just remember it was about 3:30 AM and I heard this weird rumble in the distance. It got a little bit louder and all the sudden the dog started running out of the room and the room started shaking. Now, I'm assuming this was an earthquake, but the rest of the night the dog just kind of stared at me and stood there. I asked about 4 of my friends who were awake if they felt anything, and they said they didn't feel anything. There was also this earthquake website that didn't say there was any activity. But this felt like a pretty big shake, enough to jolt me almost off the couch. It's probably more a coincidence then anything, but one of those things that kind of freaked me out. Timing must've been right, I guess.

the witching hour

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I used to hear things somewhat frequently at my parents house a handful of years back.  I was working nights at the time so I'd always be coming in anywhere from 12:30am to 4am.  Almost every night as soon as I unlocked the door and opened it and stepped inside I'd hear this very faint muttering of voices, like more than 2.  Very fast mumbling and from a distance.  Almost sounds like a radio is on very quiet, but a second or two later it would just end.  Now sometimes I'd be sitting watching TV after work, again it'd be 1-5am or so and I'd hear that noise again when the TV went quiet and sometimes see shadows moving out of the corner of my eye.  These shadows appear to be about 3 feet high and would move extremely fast.  I'd see the shadows regardless of lights on or off TV on or off.  Hard to blame it on the TV colors and light causes shadows when its off.  That room didn't face the road so not car headlights either.

 

Now these events happened just over the last few years.  Me and a friend went to a old quarry that was also a munitions plant during WW1 that exploded and killed roughly 50 men in 1918.  The rock crusher is still there I'll throw up a random google pic:l.jpg

And as you can see their are two entrances that are tunnels.  Both have collapsed and the one on the left goes back maybe 30 feet, hooks to the right and meets up with the other one which hooks right and goes about 75 feet and up through the part that collapsed to the surface.  We were in there, no one else was there and we'd hear footsteps on the crushed stone all over the ground and look around and not a soul to be found and myself and my friend were standing perfectly still.  Long story short someone must have seen us walking up the road and called the cops.  They found us and as they were talking to my friend I was looking back at the crusher which has to be maybe 30-40 feet tall and I notice all around it are green eyes looking at us.  I was the only one facing the crushed as the cops and my friends back were to it.  Had to be 12 sets of eyes, some on the top, sides, ground level all over.  Once the cops started to ask me questions and I took my attention away from the crusher the eyes were gone when I looked back to it.  They told us to leave so we did since it was technically trespassing and we didn't want any trouble.

 

I went back maybe 2 years ago with two different friends.  We hit the crusher, hang out there for a bit and decide to walk the trails and roads that are all over the place.  It used to be a good size quarry/munitions plant and buildings were all over the place which all got leveled in the explosion but the trails and old roads are still there.  We are all walking side my side I got a mag light as the main source of light.  Need to be careful due to well your basically walking ontop of tunnels that haven't collapsed or who knows what.  So you'll see 30 foot drop offs out of nowhere.  I'm scanning the area infront of us and pass over a small patch of woods that the trail goes around.  As soon as I pass my light over it I see a figure standing facing us dead on, maybe 20 feet ahead of me.  I instantly put the light back and whatever it was is gone since I passed over it kind of quick at first.  The guy directly next to me says "did you see that too", I go "yep, I saw a dark figure standing right there.  He goes "I saw a man in dirty overalls standing perfectly still staring right at us"  The other guy WAS LOOKING THE OTHER WAY and missed everything.  He's the big non believer and is dying to see something to maybe change his outlook.  I believe the other guy that saw it since he's got some wicked stories from his childhood house.  That is the only full figure I've ever seen.  When I passed the light back to it all the leaves, braches everything were perfectly still.  It was a perfect night too, not a cloud in the sky, no wind at all.

 

Most recent was maybe 6 months ago.  I'm over at the guy's house above that also saw the figure.  We're in his basement watching netflix movies.  I'm getting ready to head out since I got to work in the morning so he powers down the TV and whatnot and for a second we're both sitting there in perfect silence.  Out of nowhere we both hear a scream.  Whatever made the noise was clearly like feet from us and screaming at the top of it's lungs but it was very quiet and high pitched.  We both heard it, I could tell by the look on his face.  It seriously sounded like those EVP's on those ghost shows when they capture a scream.  I always figured those shows EVP's were rigged until I heard that scream.

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I've been on a couple of ghost tours at Manly Quarantine Station, my brother and uncle claim to have seen something, but I never did when on them. Nevertheless, I'd go back again just for the history etc.

 

My Aunt's house (same one my mother grew up in) is supposedly haunted by a nurse pushing a trolley. A couple of years ago my uncle (who lives in the granny flat at the back of the house) supposedly saw her walking down the back steps and my father also claims to have seen her many years ago. When I was younger I thought I heard a voice ask my name there when I was in the living room, but I put that down to my mind wandering.

 

My brother claims there is some 'black figure' he has seen a couple of times in our house, once again, I have not. I think he said Mum has also seen it, but eh. I don't really know what to make of it, the house was built for my parents and the land was an empty lot probably used back in the day for grazing.

 

On anther night he said he woke up to see a little girl standing at the foot of his bed and he freaked out. Weirder though was this girl we know (my brother was previously keen on but she shut him down/continued to lead him on) at her own house was woken up by an old man shaking and yelling at her and apparently described him exactly as my grandfather, who had died many years before I (or my brother) were born.

 

I'm a skeptic, but I still enjoy reading and hearing people's stories and going on the tours, even if it is just for the history of the place, it's a bit of fun. 

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Okay, the place we lived before we moved to Chicago was a two bedroom townhouse in the suburbs of Dayton, OH. Not that old of a place. Not too long after we moved in, I had this weird dream where we were being shown the unit, and we were upstairs where the two bedrooms were. When I looked around the little "hallway"/foyer area where you had the doors to the master bedroom and the second bedroom and bathroom, I asked the property manager why the door to the second bedroom (which had become my music/computer room since moving in) was boarded up and there was a massive padlock on the door/wall.

 

"Oh, that's where the found the body." Cue hearing something violently scratching the other side of the door, and the property manager just shaking her head as I went toward the door, then we went downstairs.

 

Now, I love me some scary movies, but I can't think of a flick that I could've stored that away a scene like that in my subconscious memory and transposed it to MY HOME.

 

That shook the hell out of me, and made me very wary of when the dog would start freaking out randomly and bark at nothing.

 

then shortly before we left, Em was getting ready for work, as was I, and she went into the master bathroom, and noticed it was really dark in there. I then hear "honey, what did you do with the nightlight?"

"What the fuck are you talking about?"

"The nightlight's gone."

"What do you mean 'gone?'"

"It's not here. Not on the vanity, not on the floor in here, not in a drawer, it's not anywhere. What'd you do with it?"

"I have no clue what the balls you're talking about."

"Seriously, what did you do with it?"

this went on for a while, I'm getting more and more confused, and we just kind of end up giving up on the subject.

Em then goes into the closet to get dressed, and then calls me over to look at something.

In the corner of the upper shelf above the clothesline in the closet is the nightlight. Just chillin'.

 

Neither of us sleepwalk or have a history of doing so. Neither of us play pranks on another that would freak us the fuck out like that. Em has enough anxieties as it is, and I'm a terrible liar anyway. So yeah, we totally believe there was some sort of entity in that unit we lived in. It didn't spur ourmove to Chicago at all, as that was a "if we don't do it now, we never will" decision, 'cause Em was totally stoked on the idea of a ghost in the place. She went so far as to stand in the middle of the bedroom and say "if anyone's here with us, I just want to say we mean you no harm, and will be happy to share this space with you so long as you mean us no harm. Feel free to play around, and please don't break anything."

 

But yeah, that's about it. Now and again, I'll swear my daughter is seeing her grandmother when she's staring off and actually seeming like she's following something. At least if she's doing what I think she's doing, I hope that's who she sees.

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I think I wrote about my friend cat in another paranormal thread? She has crazy stuff happen to her all the time. I’ve known her since I was 6 so I’ve heard some shit over the years.

Her cousin died last year (maybe it was 2 years ago now) in a corn silo. He was walking around in it, which you’re not supposed to do, and ended up falling into an air pocket, subsequently the corn suffocated and crushed him. His mom said when they pulled his body out his jaw was dislocated from the massive weight of the corn. Really sad stuff. Anyway, the day after he died, cat said she was sleeping and woke up to someone grabbing her shoulders to turn her around/roll her over. She turned around and saw her cousin. He was looking at her, and she said she felt very calm. He kept telling her how scared he was and that he didn’t know where he was. She said she just kept telling him it would be alright. This was when she was staying at her parents house for the funeral. She’s also told me that she often wakes up to a dark figure in the corner of both her parents house, and the house she lives in now. She says she can’t make it out, but the figure is always hidden in a shadow, or looks like a person with long dark hair, bent over with their hair over their face so you can’t see it.

Also once she was sleeping on her back, and woke up to something at the bottom of the bed (she couldn’t see it) that was pulling her covers off of her very slowly, down off of the bed and onto the floor.

She also has HUGE problem with sleep walking, and talking in her sleep. She’s woken me up a couple times by shaking me and doing this weird sort of mumbling/crying thing. She never remembers it in the morning.

I know she’s not making any of it up, mostly because the girl could not tell a lie to save her life, and she is absolutely TERRIFIED when it does happen.

I’ve woken up a few times and felt a ‘presence’ in my room and one time I swear I woke up to someone touching my face. but that’s about it.

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I dont really have any ghost stories, im super into anything paranormal and shit though. I always think I see UFO's though, but im kinda afraid of aliens so its probably me just being paranoid. Idk if this is really paranormal but I swear to god I almost got aten by a werewolf one time. Me and my friend were walking up to her side garage door and this thing started hardcore running at us like growling and shit and I was like holy fuck and we ran in and shut the door literally just as it would of probably attacked me. Shit was scary, and I know it was not a fucking dog. No one believes us. So yea, I coulda been a werewolf..

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Ghost/paranormal stories freak me out. I don't know why since I don't really believe in it.

Only weird thing that ever happened to me occurred when I was a teenager. My grandpa lived with us and his bedroom was in the finished basement at my parents house.

One day I walked down the stairs to go watch tv and saw my grandpa putting on his hat in his bedroom, obviously about to go out. He nodded at me and I nodded back and went to watch tv. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Later my sister came down (she wasn't living at home at the time) to say Hi and asked me if our grandpa was back from Mexico yet. I said yeah, I saw him earlier. Again, nothing out of the ordinary.

At dinner that night, my dad asked me out of the blue what if I had been smoking pot. I'm like, What? No! Why? And he told me that grandpa was still in Mexico for a week.

I have no explanation for it other than maybe I'm so used to seeing him there that my brain made it up. Not sure. I'm still convinced I saw him there that day.

Also, he's still alive and kicking btw ;) and the story happened at least 10 years ago.

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Love reading about ghost stuff even though it freaks me the hell out. I've had a couple of weird experiences, but nothing too extreme.

 

The first occurred at my cousin's house. Her little girl refused to sleep in her room, and was deathly afraid of her closet, which they assumed was just a child's imagination. So, when I spent the night I ended up sleeping in that room. Above her bed, they had the girl's name spelled out in felt-like paper. Well, in the middle of the night, I awoke when one of the letters, the one exactly above my head, fell down and smacked me in the face. It was the only letter that fell even though they were all tied together. Also, I remember feeling somewhat apprehensive about the closet myself, even though I didn't hear or see anything in there and I'm a grown-ass-man. I remember getting up and closing the closet door, and in the morning it was open again even no one else had been in that room.

 

The other weird moment was when I first moved into a big house I lived in for a few years. At the time only two of us were living there, and I had the upstairs all to myself cause our other roommates weren't completely moved in yet. I'm a complete insomniac, so staying up til 5 or 6am is not uncommon for me. I had just gone to bed around 6am, and was about to hit deep sleep, when I heard a door slam shut with full force. I woke up and assumed that my best friend, who again wasn't actually staying there yet, had gotten home pissed off (perhaps with his girlfriend) and slammed the door. Well, when I didn't hear any other movement, I got up to check and knocked on his closed bedroom door.  There was complete silence. I looked around the upstairs and there was no one else home. I even opened his bedroom door and everything was exactly the same as he had left it the day before. Also, all the windows were shut and for an old house there was hardly any draft. I called my downstairs roommate and she said she heard it too and had assumed I had slammed the door. Other little weird things happened in that house, but nothing as abrasive as that. 

 

Both of these occurrences may be explained by natural phenomenon, but they were pretty weird nonetheless.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is pretty far from paranormal, but extremely weird..

Last night I turned on my TV at about 11:30pm and it just started to make this terrible screeching sound, really deafening. So, needless to say, I shut my TV off right away (My sister and dad were asleep upstairs and I didn't want to wake them up). This morning when I woke up at 7:30am, I decided to turn my TV on to see if it was really fucked up or if it was just a fluke. As I turned it on, it took a little longer than usual for the image to show up, but the sound was back to normal. I was prepared for the terrible squealing sound and had my hands over my ears. 

Also, this is my first time reading this thread, but as I finished reading it, I noticed that I had a message, so I responded to it. As I was replying to the message I started to smell something.. It smelled like a woman's perfume. The only "woman" who lives in this house is my sister and she's only here once every two weeks, not to mention, her and my dad left the house early this morning to go golfing, so I can assure you it was not hers. 

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This is pretty far from paranormal, but extremely weird..

Last night I turned on my TV at about 11:30pm and it just started to make this terrible screeching sound, really deafening. So, needless to say, I shut my TV off right away (My sister and dad were asleep upstairs and I didn't want to wake them up). This morning when I woke up at 7:30am, I decided to turn my TV on to see if it was really fucked up or if it was just a fluke. As I turned it on, it took a little longer than usual for the image to show up, but the sound was back to normal. I was prepared for the terrible squealing sound and had my hands over my ears. 

Also, this is my first time reading this thread, but as I finished reading it, I noticed that I had a message, so I responded to it. As I was replying to the message I started to smell something.. It smelled like a woman's perfume. The only "woman" who lives in this house is my sister and she's only here once every two weeks, not to mention, her and my dad left the house early this morning to go golfing, so I can assure you it was not hers. 

 

maybe you were smelling your bed sheets ;)

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Moved into this apartment about 6 months ago. Which got kind of lucky due to having a Basset Hound I wanted a first floor apartment So he wouldnt have to go up and down stairs alot which could end in health problems apparently.

Anyways these apartments are super hard to get on the first floor but some lady randomly moved out without Notice so the apartment opened up and I got it. Well Lately my dog has been acting super Sketch. Staring and Growling into corners and running under the bed Whining and shit very weird for his temperment. He is usually very chill. But woke up a couple nights ago with The christmas light on the tree kind of flickering but i Could have sworn I unplugged it before bed. Shit i put in places (or think I put into certain places ends up in other places). Kind of sketching out me and my girl in the apt. Doesnt really bother me until My dog starts acting all weird and shit.

This happened to me.

 

I don't understand it at all. As a student of the brain, I don't believe in souls, ghosts, spirits, or anything that can function without a physical nervous system. I believe that life is simply a series of chemical reactions and organism like us are just the result of billions of years of evolution on earth.

 

Given that information, spooky shit does happen. In 2009 Nov, I lived in an apartment and weird things happened. Things disappearing/reappearing when asking for it to be returned. Things moving by themselves. Gas stove turning itself on.

 

The only explanation is that the women I was seeing at the time and I had somehow gone under a state of hypnosis and experienced these surreal events.

 

In Dec we moved to a bigger apartment. But the spooky events moved with us. There was one incident where the gas stove turned on by itself. There were several instances where doors closed or open. These are sliding Japanese doors, wind cannot open them. There was one incident where something "clawed" me out of thin air. I felt immense pain in my wrist and then there were three scratch marks in the skin. There were incidents where the women would fall into a trance state and sleep on the floor almost every night at 9 pm, if I touched her, she said, "cold... cold.." One night I tried to move her to bed, and she said in a demonic voice, "I HATE YOU!!" It was sad. In the morning, she came into bed, hugged me, and said "I love you." She claimed no recollection of this.

 

I've been to two therapists in 2 countries to talk about these events and find answers from a scientific perspective. Nothing. It will probably always be a mystery that will haunt me forever.

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A little Kid? That would probably creep me out the most. Im fine with stuff until my dog starts growling and barking like someone is there and then freaks out and starts whining and runs under the bed and whimpers for about 20 minutes usually If even say his name he follows me around everywhere once he gets under the bed i know somethings wrong because he refuses to leave. Like i said just started happening recently. Shit getting moved around and what not. Tv will turn on occasionally which i automatically assume my cable got lined up with someone elses and turns on idk. 4 drawers in the Kitchen were open when i got home from work today so that was weird.

 

Either you're trolling us or you had what I had (but one believes me). Expect not to be believed. But I believe you.

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