Emo Revival Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 It is your choice to get into that field bottom line. So I'm the bad guy here for wanting to go into a helping field that happens to require grad school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Hundred Fifty-Two Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Paul, Are you arguing that the American College/University system is not broken? No. I am being practical and giving alternatives to taking out loans. Here is a little nugget for the liberals. Universities are awaiting more than $840 million in overdue payments from the state. And with a $13 billion state budget deficit, the money isn't likely to come soon. http://www.sj-r.com/breaking/x645474968/Illinois-universities-struggle-without-state-payments It all comes down to money. The states have no money. The money that universities budgeted and have not received is being directly applied to students tuition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Hundred Fifty-Two Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 So I'm the bad guy here for wanting to go into a helping field that happens to require grad school? Why would you think that? It is awesome that you want to help people, but it requires sacrifice from you. Time, energy, money... but you will be rewarded with a career that makes you feel good and you enjoy doing. You understood this commitment when you enrolled freshman year, why should anything change now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjb2k1 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 It is your choice to get into that field bottom line. so he should have picked something he didn't want to do because it would have been cheaper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 so he should have picked something he didn't want to do because it would have been cheaper? No he should have picked something else so he wouldnt have to pay money into a broken system in which colleges are meant as a way to make money, not to actually educate people. He should have obviously known that and not try to have that be changed. You dont wanna overpay for your education? Dont go to college and stay ignorant and stupid and let everyone else exploit you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emo Revival Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Why would you think that? It is awesome that you want to help people, but it requires sacrifice from you. Time, energy, money... but you will be rewarded with a career that makes you feel good and you enjoy doing. You understood this commitment when you enrolled freshman year, why should anything change now? Nothing's different, all I want is for student loan interest rates to stay low which I why I support Obama. That's all this is man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjb2k1 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 No he should have picked something else so he wouldnt have to pay money into a broken system in which colleges are meant as a way to make money, not to actually educate people. He should have obviously known that and not try to have that be changed. You dont wanna overpay for your education? Dont go to college and stay ignorant and stupid and let everyone else exploit you. i knew i was misunderstanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamlikesmusic Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 have guardians save money when you are born to pay for college 18 years down the road You sort of had me until this part. Really, Captain Hindsight? All your advice sounds nice and all, but it isn't practical for most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maneatingcow Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You sort of had me until this part. Really, Captain Hindsight? All your advice sounds nice and all, but it isn't practical for most people. I was actually going to jump all over that, but figured it wouldn't add anything to the discussion so I passed. If I had to do it over again I would have gotten a tattoo while in the womb telling my parents to reduce spending on gifts and frivolous things for me and put that money in an education savings account for me. More on topic I honestly don't know where I stand on the funding of secondary education. Fundamentally the system is broken that much is obvious. It is also obvious that the US needs to have more highly educated citizens, we are falling behind the rest of the world in developing high achievers. When you factor in that the US is no longer able to simply imports our genious' we need to actually develop our own. Where I start to have the issue is with typical liberal ideology of fully federally funded secondary education. In reality there is only so much money available and I'd rather see some of the changes happen that I read about a few months back in Psychology Today. There article was about how the US can start to develop the high achieving super genious that are at the forefront of the Tech and Science industries. There plan is a bottom up approach at trying to find potential high achievers at an early age and start spending exponentially more money on working on developing them. While there plan actually calls for taking the money required for that from low achieving students, I'd have to differ with them there. Everyone deserves a quality education that challenges them. While that seems to be a peculiar aside I had to lay that out to get to this point. Looking at College it should be made an option to everyone who wants it, fully federally funded for any student who meets minimum grade requirements is however overkill. High need areas like teachers or health care professionals shouldn't have the burdens of overwhelming debt hang over their heads. Along with that high achievers shouldn't have to worry either but honestly nothing changes there those people currently are able to get Scholorships to cover costs. The only change there i want is more money being spent earlier to hunt down and develop them. Reforms are needed I just can't get behind some of the policies called for by the left. Forgiving student loan debt, for example. What keeps me from being able to support that are all the people that I have know or went to school with who went to college as a means of extending childhood (gross oversimplification). The amount of people I know who went to college and now have no intention of actually using their degree's is staggering. They are also some of the most ardent supporters of forgiving student loan debt that I run across. To be fair I am biased, I grew up as a good student. Well, at least better than average. I was always a B student who never put any effort in. I never studied I never got challenged so I coasted. All through high school I probably spent less than 20 hours doing work outside of school. What gets me bitter is I grew up having my parents tell me I would never be able to afford to go to college. At best I was told if I went after school and worked for a few years to save up I might be able to afford a Tech School. So yes I am jelous of people who made better decisions in there youth. I should have done that, but didn't. Supporting forgivness of student loan debt for a friend who went to school for Psychology and has never once had a job in that industry is something I can't get behind, partially selfishly. I'm not trying to say I got a raw deal at all, I'm simply giving back story on why I believe the way I do. I just wish I would have went to school to be a teacher straight out of high school. Realistically now it's all on me for not going back to school for teaching. I've tried going to the Tech a couple times but always get frustrated at something. (The math class where we spent 2 weeks on how to use a fucking ruler, the psychology class that we watched everybody loves raymond everyday and spent 10 minutes talking about it at the end) In reality I guess I'm just a reasonably smart guy who is reasonably lazy and reasonably good at making excuses. Oh yeah and reasonably selfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I think its more important to make sure our k-12 students get a great education more so than going to college age kids. young adults dont need a college education to be successful, but they can't be successful if they leave high school and dont know how to read, understand basic to moderate level math or have critical thinking of any level. Reforming higher education is sort of important, but all it does is put more of a burden on the segment of kids who made it through high school with a decent education, and basically dumps the kids who struggled though school. if those struggling kids had more support in the k-12 level theres a greater chance of them attending a 2yr or 4yr school, which increases enrollment, which increases gross revenue, which lowers overall costs for all students (in theory). but thats just me and my rant, college shouldnt and isnt for everyone, it should be an available option, but its not the path that everyone NEEDS to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Reforms are needed I just can't get behind some of the policies called for by the left. Forgiving student loan debt, for example. What keeps me from being able to support that are all the people that I have know or went to school with who went to college as a means of extending childhood (gross oversimplification). The amount of people I know who went to college and now have no intention of actually using their degree's is staggering. They are also some of the most ardent supporters of forgiving student loan debt that I run across. in some industries, like education for an example, loan forgiveness already exists. I cant think of the type of loan, but as long as my wife continues to teach in a school for the next 6 years, the balance of that loan will be forgiven. she has other loans that we will still owe on, but at least that one will be gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 just some random thoughts on the "grad school"/"student loan" issue: I'm in my 5th year in biostatistics (2 for masters, 3 for phd), and I've been fortunate to have assistantships cover everything + stipend, but I know not everyone is this lucky. all of our phd students have full funding, but most of our MS students only have partial funding, though a number of our students get RAs from other programs who need us to fit their statistical models. and I know things are typically *much* worse throughout campus--not every department is coordinating a multi-million dollar HIV study or has skills which are easily marketable to other programs. as for loans, I'm under the impression that some sources of loans have gone away in the past couple of years. when I started grad school a few years ago, there used to be subsidized loans that covered a decent amount of tuition and unsubsidized loans that covered pretty much anything else you could possibly need, but I've been told that the (federal) subsidized loans are no longer available, and that's uber shitty when you're talking about interest on a $10,000/semester loan. anyhoo, hopefully obama is able to cut some spending (DEFENSE!!!), raise some taxes, and divert some of that money to education, both in terms of reducing costs (tuition and loans) and increasing research (providing more assistantships). I highly doubt romney would have done any of these things... having said all of that, I was told by faculty at wisconsin that "if you aren't being paid to go to grad school, don't go to grad school", but I'm not sure if that statement was exclusive to (bio)statistics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maneatingcow Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 in some industries, like education for an example, loan forgiveness already exists. I cant think of the type of loan, but as long as my wife continues to teach in a school for the next 6 years, the balance of that loan will be forgiven. she has other loans that we will still owe on, but at least that one will be gone With Teachers i do know there are programs for at least partial forgiveness. You need to spend x amount of years teaching in low income areas. This is a great program and is something that I am all in favor of, I'd just rather see it be near universal. Anyone actively using their degree's in a high need area would have there loan's covered as long as they maintain work in that industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Hundred Fifty-Two Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You sort of had me until this part. Really, Captain Hindsight? All your advice sounds nice and all, but it isn't practical for most people. Just adding it as an option. I know I'll be doing it for my kids. There isn't one plan that fits everyone, but there is a way for everyone to make it. If there was a way to provide everyone a college education and maintain a balanced budget I would be in support of that. Until then people should take the necessary steps to pay for it themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I agree with what you said about college isnt supposed to be there for everyone and isnt needed to survive, but the way the economy is right now you cant get a job without a college degree in my state. I am talking menial minimum wage jobs want a college degree now. I dont think that college should be funded fully by the government, but I also dont think that it should cost 40K a year to get that education either. The entire education system in America needs to be rebuilt/refunded because as you stated we are falling desperately behind other nations and it is beginning in grade school. I wont pretend to know the answers on how to fix this, but do know it isnt working . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Hundred Fifty-Two Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 With Teachers i do know there are programs for at least partial forgiveness. You need to spend x amount of years teaching in low income areas. This is a great program and is something that I am all in favor of, I'd just rather see it be near universal. Anyone actively using their degree's in a high need area would have there loan's covered as long as they maintain work in that industry. Programs like ROTC will also cover your education if you serve time in the military. There are also volunteer groups that will pay for your student loans if you work for them. One I know of is Jesuit Volunteers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maneatingcow Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I think its more important to make sure our k-12 students get a great education more so than going to college age kids. young adults dont need a college education to be successful, but they can't be successful if they leave high school and dont know how to read, understand basic to moderate level math or have critical thinking of any level. Reforming higher education is sort of important, but all it does is put more of a burden on the segment of kids who made it through high school with a decent education, and basically dumps the kids who struggled though school. if those struggling kids had more support in the k-12 level theres a greater chance of them attending a 2yr or 4yr school, which increases enrollment, which increases gross revenue, which lowers overall costs for all students (in theory). but thats just me and my rant, college shouldnt and isnt for everyone, it should be an available option, but its not the path that everyone NEEDS to take. Absolutely more funds need to be diverted to K-12. And more of those funds need to be used for high achieving students. In the elementary level we need smaller class sizes so there can be more 1 on 1 teaching. The smaller the class size the better able to get all students the fundamentals. It also would make it easier to identify high achievers. We need better reading writing and arithmatic for all students and better AP classes to try and develop those with the potential to be the backbone of the US economy down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Absolutely more funds need to be diverted to K-12. And more of those funds need to be used for high achieving students. In the elementary level we need smaller class sizes so there can be more 1 on 1 teaching. The smaller the class size the better able to get all students the fundamentals. It also would make it easier to identify high achievers. We need better reading writing and arithmatic for all students and better AP classes to try and develop those with the potential to be the backbone of the US economy down the road. money shouldnt be spent more on higher acheiving kids, it should be spent equally amongst all kids. if you focus more on the high acheivers you neglect the lower performing/acheving kids that struggle with life after high school, if they even graduate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maneatingcow Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 money shouldnt be spent more on higher acheiving kids, it should be spent equally amongst all kids. if you focus more on the high acheivers you neglect the lower performing/acheving kids that struggle with life after high school, if they even graduate. I'm not saying we don't need to do a better job teaching everyone. That is fundamentally obvious at how the US fares so poorly in testing when compared against the rest of the world. Especially when you compare look at how abysmally the US does in low income areas. Low income areas need massive changes to try and buck the trend. However, if the US is going to compete on a global scale we need to start doing a better job at developing high achievers. High achievers are job creators. In the past the US has been able to import genius' from India and China. Now India and China are doing a better job retaining them now that their economies are booming and the US is diminishing. It may not sound nice to say we need to spend more money on high achievers but it's something I think we need to do for the long term success of the US economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac1 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You and I simply have a different understanding of education. Bring the best down, lower the bar and then we will all be equal. That certainly was not the case (gulp) 30 years ago. The "smart" kids were in the same classes and the "shop" kids were in another. Education is now all about the public unions and testing as every penny goes towards salaray, healthcare and retirement costs. money shouldnt be spent more on higher acheiving kids, it should be spent equally amongst all kids. if you focus more on the high acheivers you neglect the lower performing/acheving kids that struggle with life after high school, if they even graduate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 money shouldnt be spent more on higher acheiving kids, it should be spent equally amongst all kids. if you focus more on the high acheivers you neglect the lower performing/acheving kids that struggle with life after high school, if they even graduate. I partially agree with this, but only if the higher achieving kids aren't "brought down" by the lower achieving kids (I think mac1 is saying ~this, too). and hopefully if these programs start early, future "lower achieving kids" will be better off than today's "lower achieving kids". and I'd like to see something where everyone gets $x,000 from the government for college, which can be used toward tech/community college or a 4-year school. have it be enough to cover 2 years of a tech school or community college (tuition + living expenses), that way poorer people have an opportunity to advance their education without incurring debt and higher achieving kids (poor or otherwise) have an opportunity to get a year or two of free college, and if you rack up loan debt during that time, you won't really have much of an excuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maneatingcow Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 This is a decent article that helps to explain why I'm saying more money should be spent on high achievers. Also Lady Gaga reference is in there so even if you hate everything from this thread, you've got that to look for. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201206/brainiacs-and-billionaires "According to the National Association for Gifted Children website, the federal government spends 2 cents of every $100 of K-12 federal education dollars on them. This is troublesome, particularly for smart kids from financially disadvantaged backgrounds, who often depend on gifted programs offered by the public school system. If funding for such programs is .02 percent of the federal education budget, it should be no surprise if some percentage of the super smart are never identified and fail to reach their potential." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 So which one of you assholes is gunna mail me some legal weed? This guy. I'll hook a brotha up. I am actually pretty bummed about this weed thing. More DUIs. Wooo! I am really glad I live like two minutes from Portland, where illegal weed will be paving the streets. No fucking way am I ever giving the government money to get high. Pisses me off. Swear that most of the people who voted this in are skater bros who don't know they will be taxed out the ass for weed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You and I simply have a different understanding of education. Bring the best down, lower the bar and then we will all be equal. That certainly was not the case (gulp) 30 years ago. The "smart" kids were in the same classes and the "shop" kids were in another. Education is now all about the public unions and testing as every penny goes towards salaray, healthcare and retirement costs. no, its not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almightyseancore Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 This guy. I'll hook a brotha up. I am actually pretty bummed about this weed thing. More DUIs. Wooo! I am really glad I live like two minutes from Portland, where illegal weed will be paving the streets. No fucking way am I ever giving the government money to get high. Pisses me off. Swear that most of the people who voted this in are skater bros who don't know they will be taxed out the ass for weed. i'd rather be taxed and smoke freely than having to be all secretive about it, or go to jail over it. tokimedo and scottheisel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.