aflycon Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 So, are we just ignoring the fact that good cops don't fix the problem? If all cops are bad, Id hate to see what this country would be like if all the good cops stopped working. There are plenty of great cops out there doing real things to change the world and make it a better place. But what gets more clicks/viewers "Local cop changing drug enforcement laws" or "Cop accused of murder"? This is also a really important point that I think we've overlooked. Media spin is a huge part of this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 So, are we just ignoring the fact that good cops don't fix the problem? This is also a really important point that I think we've overlooked. Media spin is a huge part of this issue. True story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noalarmplanet Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Peter King is the biggest fucking moron in congress. http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/12/peter-king-eric-garner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 The coroner did say that they contributed to his death but that the choke hold crushed his throat. To me it sounded like had he been a 180 pound man he would have been able to withstand the choke hold longer, but still would have ultimately died from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Peter King is the biggest fucking moron in congress. http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/12/peter-king-eric-garner Read the title, didn't even read the article because it's Peter King. Same moron who formed who tried be like McCarthy expect he hunted "terrorists." I went to high school on Staten Island a few blocks where the Eric Garner incident happened. Staten Island is one of the most conservative parts of NYC. They helped re-elect this angel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Grimm_(politician) If anyone here knows anything about Staten Island, no one should be surprised that the officer wasn't indicted. A sizable portion of the NYPD lives there, and I couldn't see a fair trial happening there. Unfortunately stuff like this is one of the reasons I don't live there anymore. My favorite thing about this whole debate about police is that the only NYPD members in my family are on my black side. My Uncle and Aunt are both retired NYPD, and always had interesting stories about dealing with racism WITHIN the department. My Uncle recently talked about when he joined the NYPD in the late 80's when racial tensions were much higher. He eventually worked the task force in Manhattan, and was one of the first officers to work the task force with another black cop in the same squad car. Yes, in the late 1980's a bunch of white cops were beside themselves at seeing two black cops in the same squad car Long story short not all cops are awful. My family wouldn't have put Garner in that chokehold. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the system, police training and tactics, and the fact a bunch of self-righteous pricks keep permeating police forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albert Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Albert, explain why this doesnt register in your brain? First let me start by giving you the benefit of the doubt . Maybe you are not aware or maybe you are kidding, but this type of statement or question is no way to conduct a proper inquiry. It has no place in rational discourse or debate. But I will respond to you nevertheless, it does register in my brain as a matter of a fact. The argument that all cops are bad is an ideological and sociological viewpoint upon culture (in this case specifically American culture). The problem with this argument is that it is almost exclusively ideological and barely ever contains substance or a practical application in terms of solving the problem. For example what do you personally propose would be a better system (in exchange for a police force.)? Surely you are not suggesting erasing the police force from US soil, and that upon doing so Peace and Love would immediately follow and take care of the rest. Furthermore after you come up with a specific plan: how would you integrate this plan into a stateside system where each state contains different laws that need to be enforced uniquely to that state (without police mind you because police are bad and need replacing.) Even further, how would you make this system cohesively enforced (again without police) nationally on a federal level. And then finally, what makes you think that in thousands of years of cultures reforming social policy and the use of police upon the populous that you can even come up with a system that is full proof? If you do not propose a better system than police, and continue to wildly claim all police are bad you are only distracting and at the same time intensifying the very problem you most likely want to fix. This is because again, you are not proposing anything better than the current system. You are (at best) recognizing the problem or admitting that a system is broken, but that is all. I think what you're misunderstanding is that someone can be aware that there is a problem within the police force with cops that abuse power, use unnecessary force, or even simply break laws because they feel entitled to and still acknowledge that that not all cops are like that, heck in reality it is the minority. No one is writing off bad cops just because there are good ones out there as well. You posted an extremely strong position claiming "all cops are bad, end of story". When that is so ridiculous that it was hard to even take seriously at first. You don't make outlandish claims to support causes, all that will do for you is have people take you less seriously. You deal out facts, percentages, show the real information and demand change from that. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abovetheearth Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 First let me start by giving you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you are not aware, but this type of statement or question is no way to conduct a proper inquiry. It has no place in rational discourse or debate. But I will respond to you nevertheless, it does register in my brain as a matter of a fact. The argument that all cops are bad is an ideological and sociological viewpoint upon culture (in this case specifically American culture). The problem with this argument is that it is almost exclusively ideological and barely ever contains substance or a practical application in place of a police force. For example what do you personally propose would be a better system (in exchange for a police force.)? Furthermore after you come up with a specific plan: how would you integrate this plan into a stateside system where each state contains different laws that need to be enforced uniquely to that state (without police mind you because police are bad and need replacing.) Even further, how would you make this system cohesively enforced (again without police) nationally on a federal level. reading over most of this thread, it appears that we agree on most things. I happened to quote a comment i liked. i agreed with stl_ben that all cops arent bad. Maybe you are not aware, but this type of statement or question is no way to conduct a proper inquiry. It has no place in rational discourse or debate. I'm going by having spent 5+ years in that profession. i am basing this purely on EXPERIENCE rather than you reading newspapers. I've seen good. I've see bad. hence not all cops are bad cops. its not for a debate, its not for an inquiry. why are you asking me for solutions when all i said was not all cops are bad cops? also, mail me whatever drug youre on when you replied. looks fun. stop with the authors. the books. just stop. stop trying to outwit your next line. its just one of those things man. there are good, there are bad. albert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albert Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 reading over most of this thread, it appears that we agree on most things. I happened to quote a comment i liked. also, mail me whatever drug youre on when you replied. looks fun. Sorry man cant find the envelope(s). +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abovetheearth Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 ill mail you envelopes. postage paid if i have too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vool Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 wow...so, there has been another "white cop kills unarmed dark-skinned man" episode in the US (Phoenix)... Is this becoming some sort of sport? (don't mean to offend anybody)...but these "cartes blanches" are ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/us/cleveland-justice-department-police-excessive-force/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 DOJ investigation regarding the Cleveland Police history of excessive force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noalarmplanet Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/us/cleveland-justice-department-police-excessive-force/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 DOJ investigation regarding the Cleveland Police history of excessive force. I saw this on maddow last night and they said it's the second time the DOJ has had to take over the Cleveland Police department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Family Friendly Rap God Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 wow...so, there has been another "white cop kills unarmed dark-skinned man" episode in the US (Phoenix)... Is this becoming some sort of sport? (don't mean to offend anybody)...but these "cartes blanches" are ridiculous! This has been happening for years. People are now paying attention. GradedOnACurve, noalarmplanet and GalacticMelt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aflycon Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 This has been happening for years. People are now paying attention. They won't be in three weeks unless violent protest continues to intensify or there's another high-profile case, neither of which will happen. Nobody's going to let this ruin their Christmas spirit, and that's pretty sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noalarmplanet Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 This has been happening for years. People are now paying attention. 100% From Bill Maher 6 months ago: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152281839187297&set=vb.62507427296&type=2&theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalatapes Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Heard this news from JusticeJW http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/15/justice/north-carolina-lennon-lacy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 This is some straight up bullshit! And there's no way an investigation by the FBI would admit it was a lynching. The USA would burn to the ground, and I'd help burn it (well some parts of it anyhow) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I was reading about this a while ago. Kid goes out for a run before bed, doesn't come home and they find him strung up on a playground. Almost definitely not a suicide. I can't believe anyone would think that it would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I was reading about this a while ago. Kid goes out for a run before bed, doesn't come home and they find him strung up on a playground. Almost definitely not a suicide. I can't believe anyone would think that it would be. He just lost a relative and was depressed about that, was going through a tough time with his girlfriend (possibly ex) and was 17. He was exhibiting behavior of someone who commits suicide, so it is easy to see how someone would think that. On the flip side, the family says that the shoes he was wearing werent his, and that the belts used were not his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 He just lost a relative and was depressed about that, was going through a tough time with his girlfriend (possibly ex) and was 17. He was exhibiting behavior of someone who commits suicide, so it is easy to see how someone would think that. On the flip side, the family says that the shoes he was wearing werent his, and that the belts used were not his own. And he was 5' something and there was nothing for him to stand on to tie the belt to the playground equipment he was hung from, nothing nearby that showed he had stood on it. His mother has said he wasn't "depressed" but upset about the passing of an uncle, but that in the moment she was asked used the word depressed. Working in the death care field, I see a lot of people using the wrong word for what they're feeling. Mourning and feeling sad isn't depression and she clarified that after the fact. I haven't read anywhere that him and his gf were having problems either...in that article it just said he was keeping "distracted" with his girlfriend. What behavior was he exhibiting that someone who commits suicide does (not trying to be a prick, genuinely interested to know/I hadn't read that anywhere.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 And he was 5' something and there was nothing for him to stand on to tie the belt to the playground equipment he was hung from, nothing nearby that showed he had stood on it. His mother has said he wasn't "depressed" but upset about the passing of an uncle, but that in the moment she was asked used the word depressed. Working in the death care field, I see a lot of people using the wrong word for what they're feeling. Mourning and feeling sad isn't depression and she clarified that after the fact. I haven't read anywhere that him and his gf were having problems either...in that article it just said he was keeping "distracted" with his girlfriend. What behavior was he exhibiting that someone who commits suicide does (not trying to be a prick, genuinely interested to know/I hadn't read that anywhere.) I believe the total evidence is enough to warrant this being investigated but I don't know who determined a 5'9" person couldn't hang themselves from a 7'6" crossbar without a chair. Easily reachable, unless the kid is too out of shape to do a pullup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I believe the total evidence is enough to warrant this being investigated but I don't know who determined a 5'9" person couldn't hang themselves from a 7'6" crossbar without a chair. Easily reachable, unless the kid is too out of shape to do a pullup. I don't think it's reaching to get up, but getting it tied up there that they were talking about. At least that's what I took it as. If he could only get fingertips to it, it's hard to secure something up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I don't know his to describe the motion but it's not that hard to get yourself on top of an 8 foot bar. Why would someone go through that instead of just finding a chair? Fair question. I'm just pointing out that the article paints as physically impossible based on the height, but it's not (assuming the person is moderately athletic -- if they can't do a single pull-up then yeah, no way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalatapes Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yeah I'm only 5'6 and could easily climb up a post, this dude was in the upside of his athletic career, I don't doubt he couldn't get up there. Now, placing the "pet belts" (they have found them to be leashes for pet animals most likely a dog because they were thick cuts) would have been a huge problem... But end all are the shoes. His family claims he is a size 12 in shoes and that's what size his Jordan's were. (But who goes out to jog with Jordans? Something fishy there) But the fact of the matter is he was found with size 10.5 shoes, and no laces! I believe the reports are his gf or ex was 31 years old? Gonna be following it though. Rather unfortunate either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yeah, she was supposedly 31. I misquoted, I guess he was going out for a walk, not a jog. Pardon, everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (But who goes out to jog with Jordans? Something fishy there Thought the same thing -- especially when talking about a teenager with little money. The Jordans could have been trashed, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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