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PO: Sufjan Stevens - Carrie & Lowell (3/31/15)


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Is this the equivalent to if you buy a really expensive car you are allowed to speed?  Because you know you spent more on a car than anyone else?

 

Or more like the bankers who steal money.....because they have more money than everyone they are allowed to take even more with no consequences?

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To those of you citing the thousands of dollars you spend on vinyl every year as an excuse for stealing music, remember to subtract the vinyl you buy on the secondary market and the amount you profit when you sell vinyl that has increased in value.

This is hardly relevant to me. I purchase maybe 2-3 albums max on the secondary market each year. I stll stand by my post, firmly. I would be curious what someone like Kevin or Seth from Topshelf, or Jeff from RFC would say about this, since they post here.
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And for those of you shitting on downloading music illegally, what is better:

I download a new release from a band I'm unfamiliar with for free. I am therefore exposed to music I otherwise would have been unfamiliar with, and get excited about it. I post about the band on social media, or show some friends the music. Then if the band ever happens to come through my hometown, I'm guaranteed to buy a ticket to their show, and probably grab a record and tee shirt at the show, if I haven't already done that.

OR.

I don't want to spend $10 on a digital release I'm unfamiliar with. Therefore, I don't end up listening to the band. I don't get excited about the band, and show friends or post about it on social media. They come through my town, and I don't go to their show because I don't know their music.

And obviously this doesn't apply to every release. But if we're using shitty analogies here, if I go and test drive a car, and I don't like it, I'm not going to give the dealership 20k because they let me drive around in it for a bit for free.

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I'm loving this but worried I won't be able to get a clear copy from my local shops. Is this clear available anywhere online right now?

 

 

Approx. 20 copies of the clear available on VinylLoop for $16.50: http://vinylloop.com/collections/frontpage/products/sufjan-stevens-carrie-lowell

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And obviously this doesn't apply to every release. But if we're using shitty analogies here, if I go and test drive a car, and I don't like it, I'm not going to give the dealership 20k because they let me drive around in it for a bit for free.

 

This analogy is much worse. That analogy is like streaming the album legally and deciding  not to buy it. What you're talking about, is taking a car off the lot driving away to decide if you want to buy a more expensive model later. 

 

It's not that hard to find streams of most records or listen to several songs before you decide if an album is for you. When I check out new music, I know, after listening to two or three songs whether a record is worth buying. 

 

I'm not saying I've never downloaded music, but I find it interesting that a few people here felt the need to announce their defense of why it's okay to download music illegally. i think it's a tough platform to have.

 

But to go back to your argument... Are there ever albums that you kind of like that you keep in your digital library that didn't warrant a vinyl purchase? are there albums you've downloaded that aren't available on vinyl? did you turn around and pay for them on itunes? probably not. A lot of bands sell music at their shows, and if you go up to them and say "hey, can i have a free cd? i paid for my ticket to be here!" i think i could guess what they'd say. That's a very thin argument. It's just not that black and white. Just because you go to shows, tell your friends, and buy merch doesn't mean that other people don't do all those things PLUS pay for the album.

 

 

This is hardly relevant to me. I purchase maybe 2-3 albums max on the secondary market each year. I stll stand by my post, firmly. I would be curious what someone like Kevin or Seth from Topshelf, or Jeff from RFC would say about this, since they post here.

 

 

I'll tell you what they'd say (AK included) if it didn't mean giving some people a negative attitude... they'd say it sucks. it especially sucks that people take advance copies and put them on the internet. it severely diminishes first week sales. Independent labels (especially) are backed into a corner and have to do what they can to appeal to the consumer. They are coming to terms with the fact that a lot of the people coming to shows aren't necessarily buying the record. But by saying "this is bullshit! stop it!" they are not connecting with the fans that they unfortunately need to survive. I think their statement was pretty powerful, because it seems like quite a few people are going to respect them more and decide to buy the record when they may not have otherwise. It was the most beneficial response they could have made, but it's basically a "if you can't beat them, join them" response and fans shouldn't be proud of that.

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This analogy is much worse. That analogy is like streaming the album legally and deciding not to buy it. What you're talking about, is taking a car off the lot driving away to decide if you want to buy a more expensive model later.

It's not that hard to find streams of most records or listen to several songs before you decide if an album is for you. When I check out new music, I know, after listening to two or three songs whether a record is worth buying.

I'm not saying I've never downloaded music, but I find it interesting that a few people here felt the need to announce their defense of why it's okay to download music illegally. i think it's a tough platform to have.

When I'm supporting bands as much as I am able to, while being a broke university student, I don't see it being a tough platform to have at all. I pay for as much music as I can without putting myself in financial danger. I go to as many shows as I can. If I buy a record or tee shirt from a band at a show for $15, I'll always hand them a $20 and tell them to keep the extra $5, because I know that's money in their pocket, and I'm going to do as much as I can to keep bands whose intellectual property I enjoy going. I listen to a lot of new music, and I can't possibly pay for ALL of it. However, I also don't want to stream it using Spotify and get hit with ads every 3 songs. I'm also not going to support a music streaming site where I can go and buy a $5 EP from a band, and they'll see more money from that than if I stream their record 100 times on Spotify.

If you buy a physical copy of a record, and it doesn't come with a DL code, is it then alright to download it illegally? Obviously this is slightly aside from our discussion, but I'm curious.

I don't want to sound all high and mighty, like I'm single handedly saving the music industry, but like I said, by buying literally hundreds of records directly from small labels, and directly from bands on tour or their webstore, or wearing band merch every day of the week, I'd like to think that I'm doing a lot more good than harm for these bands and labels, even if I only own 3/5 of their discography on vinyl, and 2/5 have been downloaded for free.

And I know the analogy was shitty. I said it was. But it was at least closer to being relevant than stl_ben's attempt at a post.

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They are coming to terms with the fact that a lot of the people coming to shows aren't necessarily buying the record.

 

There is the argument that you release an album to promote your tour, because being on the road is where the money is now.  In the past, you'd tour to promote the album, now it's flip flopped.  The record becomes a promo item.

I don't know if I agree with that entirely or not, but I think it's interesting to think about.

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Further to the debate

 

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/11/ministry-of-sound-streaming-switch-off-free?CMP=ema_632

 

 

I think what you do is you take casual consumers of music and you turn them from purchasers into noshers, into browsers, into snackers. They don’t have to engage in the subscription model. The reality of some of the bigger streaming services is that 75% of their user base are free, which has a horrific impact on the music industry and its ability to invest in talent going forward

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