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On 7/2/2017 at 6:39 PM, Bu$hleaguer said:

If you make $240 a day ( the album is a third of this guy's DAILY paycheck.... $80x3=$240/day) this guy makes 87k a year.  Maybe he worded it wrong but a daily paycheck is a daily paycheck.

I was referring to the 45 dollar version.  I make about 140 a day prior to taxes.   And considering I live in LA and pay 950 in rent, 200 a month for health insurance as well 120 for car insurance... I'd categoriaze a 45 dollar album an extreme luxury.

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14 minutes ago, downisthenewup87 said:

I was referring to the 45 dollar version.  I make about 140 a day prior to taxes.   And considering I live in LA and pay 950 in rent, 200 a month for health insurance as well 120 for car insurance... I'd categoriaze a 45 dollar album an extreme luxury.

All good man, I'm not judging anyone!  I certainly wish new vinyl was about 50% of the cost it is.... always seems like a damn ripoff.  I'll trade insurance though, I pay 1300/month!  Damn bills.

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On 7/1/2017 at 8:33 AM, ntslash said:

Every business (at least every successful one) passes man hour costs onto the consumer. Time=money. If you don't charge for time, you can't be profitable. 

Nothing about the music industry is normal. There's no reason that muting vocal tracks should have costed an additional $40 per unit. Sorry. Just doesn't make sense.

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26 minutes ago, mcpherson123 said:

Nothing about the music industry is normal. There's no reason that muting vocal tracks should have costed an additional $40 per unit. Sorry. Just doesn't make sense.

you don't honestly believe that the fragile deviations 4xlp is just the fragile tracks with the vocals muted, do you? god you are the fucking worst.

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1 hour ago, mcpherson123 said:

Nothing about the music industry is normal. There's no reason that muting vocal tracks should have costed an additional $40 per unit. Sorry. Just doesn't make sense.

 

47 minutes ago, jrodan said:

you don't honestly believe that the fragile deviations 4xlp is just the fragile tracks with the vocals muted, do you? god you are the fucking worst.

 

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1 hour ago, jrodan said:

you don't honestly believe that the fragile deviations 4xlp is just the fragile tracks with the vocals muted, do you? god you are the fucking worst.

Cool it, stabby. I'm "the fucking worst"? That's fine I guess. Its also incredibly dramatic. 

 

18  of the tracks listed on this set are merely track titles from The Fragile (including LP exclusives from the original LP edition) with the word "Instrumental" in parentheses next to the title. Having not heard this in its entirety, that alone leads me to believe that that is just what those particular tracks are. Just Fragile songs with the vocals muted. And so far most of those are that. I'm not hearing a whole lot of other changes.

 

12 of the song titles are totally unfamiliar to the original Fragile tracklist. I have only heard a few short tracks myself. They're cool. Supposedly this makes up "over an hour" of the compilation according to the NIN store. I've not heard them all yet.

 

7 of the songs are "Alternate Versions." "The Frail (Alternate Version)" just sounds like the less than two minute piano part played alone on a shitty piano. Not a bad thing. Its beautiful but not a major feat of performance nor mixing or "remixing." "La Mer (Alternate Version)" sounds like a relatively raw or not so well mixed version of the exact album track with no new or altered content. Simply a less controlled, more raw mix. So that's one that was probably lying around that hadn't had the final album mix done to it yet. This thing is turning into a bargain before my very eyes! So far at least 4 of these sound like that is the case.

 

I'm going to go through and assess how completely different each "Alternate Version" is but so far its not sounding like that much was done to some of them.

 

The point is the largest of those three categories is Fragile original LP tracks with the vocals muted. Maybe they touched up the mix to accommodate not having the vocals present anymore.  I understand that.  So no, I don't think this entire 4xLP compilation is just old tracks with vocals muted but that is just over half of the quantity of the tracks that are available on the set. The compilation had to be mastered so the man hours on the "remaster" of this set, should not be considered to be extraneous. That's a part of the process that must happen. No one tacks on $40 to master a new assembly of tracks that were never mastered together before. 

 

Also: "OVER AN HOUR OF NEVER BEFORE HEARD MATERIAL FROM THE ORIGINAL FRAGILE RECORDING SESSIONS."

 

So yeah, that doesn't constitute any new work and if that content was great enough to sit on for 18 years it must be worth the extra $40.

 

So $80 for 4 thick LP's stuffed two at a time into a regular 2xLP gatefold, with 18 muted vocals, 12 unheard songs (read: outtakes) from 1999-ish and 7 alternative mixes or what sounds like early mixes, indicating they're even less worked upon than the major release versions. 

 

You're right... I'm the fucking worst... at buying bullshit.

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13 minutes ago, mcpherson123 said:

Cool it, stabby. I'm "the fucking worst"? That's fine I guess. Its also incredibly dramatic. 

 

18  of the tracks listed on this set are merely track titles from The Fragile (including LP exclusives from the original LP edition) with the word "Instrumental" in parentheses next to the title. Having not heard this in its entirety, that alone leads me to believe that that is just what those particular tracks are. Just Fragile songs with the vocals muted. And so far most of those are that. I'm not hearing a whole lot of other changes.

 

12 of the song titles are totally unfamiliar to the original Fragile tracklist. I have only heard a few short tracks myself. They're cool. Supposedly this makes up "over an hour" of the compilation according to the NIN store. I've not heard them all yet.

 

7 of the songs are "Alternate Versions." "The Frail (Alternate Version)" just sounds like the less than two minute piano part played alone on a shitty piano. Not a bad thing. Its beautiful but not a major feat of performance nor mixing or "remixing." "La Mer (Alternate Version)" sounds like a relatively raw or not so well mixed version of the exact album track with no new or altered content. Simply a less controlled, more raw mix. So that's one that was probably lying around that hadn't had the final album mix done to it yet. This thing is turning into a bargain before my very eyes! So far at least 4 of these sound like that is the case.

 

I'm going to go through and assess how completely different each "Alternate Version" is but so far its not sounding like that much was done to some of them.

 

The point is the largest of those three categories is Fragile original LP tracks with the vocals muted. Maybe they touched up the mix to accommodate not having the vocals present anymore.  I understand that.  So no, I don't think this entire 4xLP compilation is just old tracks with vocals muted but that is just over half of the quantity of the tracks that are available on the set. The compilation had to be mastered so the man hours on the "remaster" of this set, should not be considered to be extraneous. That's a part of the process that must happen. No one tacks on $40 to master a new assembly of tracks that were never mastered together before. 

 

Also: "OVER AN HOUR OF NEVER BEFORE HEARD MATERIAL FROM THE ORIGINAL FRAGILE RECORDING SESSIONS."

 

So yeah, that doesn't constitute any new work and if that content was great enough to sit on for 18 years it must be worth the extra $40.

 

So $80 for 4 thick LP's stuffed two at a time into a regular 2xLP gatefold, with 18 muted vocals, 12 unheard songs (read: outtakes) from 1999-ish and 7 alternative mixes or what sounds like early mixes, indicating they're even less worked upon than the major release versions. 

 

You're right... I'm the fucking worst... at buying bullshit.

I agree that it should have gone for $40 or something around there. But with The Fragile being my wife and Is favorite album, we had to pick this up. Definitely not the top record of the NIN collection, but worth having in it. I enjoy what I've heard so far. It's just enough to hold us over till The Fragile ships. So excited to see Trent post the photo of The Fragile on Instagram! 

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And dude, I'm not saying that no one can enjoy it. I'm just saying I don't need to called out like I'm an asshole for calling something like it is and having the ungodly, unforgivable audacity to say it was "just muted vocals" which a huge portion of it is that. I didn't itemize all the other aspects in my first post but I don't think anyone knew enough to start claiming that this was some major job that required the extraneous money to be passed on to the consumer. This is a pretty simple compilation not some surgical reconstruction of a hardcore remix album as they've been known to put out in the past. That stuff takes time but the Fixed CD never costed twice the price because they spent the time remixing it. 

 

That's all I'm trying to say. 

 

Not trying to shit on anyone every enjoying it. Just defending my estimation of it as being a work that was not worth incurring some extra egregious charge to be passed on to the customer at any level of the production. 

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Honestly. To come in here and simply call TF:D1 as a release of just "muted vocal tracks" is not only insulting but also ignorant of what has really traversed in the 10+ years of this release in its many shape & forms.

 

It's been hinted at for plenty of years if you've known & kept up with NIN fandom and lore. To simply dismiss it as some vocal-less music release is just asinine. If you wanted to come in here and just shit on it just for that, should've adhered to the "if you've got nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all" mentality then.  

 

 

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Its not like I came in here spouting racial slurs, guys. People are taking my brief and admittedly truncated first response way too seriously. 

 

Did you see the post where I itemized the apparent "work" that had been done to compile this set? I  took a lot of time to do that to make myself clear because at one point I used the short hand description of "muted vocal tracks" to imply that, past that, there wasn't any evidence of much work being done extra to warrant what someone proposed as being a cost passed to the consumer to pay for "all that hard work" to make this release possible and I called bullshit. And I only addressed one aspect of what is evidence that this did not require some extraneous work that would result in a justification of that cost.

 

All I did was use simplified language to debunk a ridiculous claim. 

 

If anyone is feeling that touchy about how I characterized the lack of a need for extraneous work, then maybe those individuals are feeling insecure about the money they spent and don't want to admit to themselves that they feel a little taken. 

 

If people like this thats great. Not trying to say you can't like it. But to imply the work on the set justifies the cost is a bit crazy to me and I made points to indicate just that. 

Edited by mcpherson123

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2 hours ago, mcpherson123 said:

Cool it, stabby. I'm "the fucking worst"? That's fine I guess. Its also incredibly dramatic. 

 

18  of the tracks listed on this set are merely track titles from The Fragile (including LP exclusives from the original LP edition) with the word "Instrumental" in parentheses next to the title. Having not heard this in its entirety, that alone leads me to believe that that is just what those particular tracks are. Just Fragile songs with the vocals muted. And so far most of those are that. I'm not hearing a whole lot of other changes.

 

12 of the song titles are totally unfamiliar to the original Fragile tracklist. I have only heard a few short tracks myself. They're cool. Supposedly this makes up "over an hour" of the compilation according to the NIN store. I've not heard them all yet.

 

7 of the songs are "Alternate Versions." "The Frail (Alternate Version)" just sounds like the less than two minute piano part played alone on a shitty piano. Not a bad thing. Its beautiful but not a major feat of performance nor mixing or "remixing." "La Mer (Alternate Version)" sounds like a relatively raw or not so well mixed version of the exact album track with no new or altered content. Simply a less controlled, more raw mix. So that's one that was probably lying around that hadn't had the final album mix done to it yet. This thing is turning into a bargain before my very eyes! So far at least 4 of these sound like that is the case.

 

I'm going to go through and assess how completely different each "Alternate Version" is but so far its not sounding like that much was done to some of them.

 

The point is the largest of those three categories is Fragile original LP tracks with the vocals muted. Maybe they touched up the mix to accommodate not having the vocals present anymore.  I understand that.  So no, I don't think this entire 4xLP compilation is just old tracks with vocals muted but that is just over half of the quantity of the tracks that are available on the set. The compilation had to be mastered so the man hours on the "remaster" of this set, should not be considered to be extraneous. That's a part of the process that must happen. No one tacks on $40 to master a new assembly of tracks that were never mastered together before. 

 

Also: "OVER AN HOUR OF NEVER BEFORE HEARD MATERIAL FROM THE ORIGINAL FRAGILE RECORDING SESSIONS."

 

So yeah, that doesn't constitute any new work and if that content was great enough to sit on for 18 years it must be worth the extra $40.

 

So $80 for 4 thick LP's stuffed two at a time into a regular 2xLP gatefold, with 18 muted vocals, 12 unheard songs (read: outtakes) from 1999-ish and 7 alternative mixes or what sounds like early mixes, indicating they're even less worked upon than the major release versions. 

 

You're right... I'm the fucking worst... at buying bullshit.

 

So quit bitching and send it back.

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Just now, vinyl addict said:

 

So quit bitching and send it back.

Are you kidding? I didn't order this. I was merely defending my position and what I said to debunk this claim:

 

On 6/30/2017 at 3:53 PM, markok said:

You guys do understand that most probably you are not paying for the manufacturing but for the re-working of the album? They are not touring for this thing,  so how do they get their "investment" back?

 

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1 minute ago, jhulud said:

If you don't have no dog in this race, then why are you in here?!? 

 

Or. 

 

If if you ain't got nothing nice to say, why say anything at all?!?! 

 

 

I'm here because I'm interested in other coming releases, specifically reissues and the scandal involving this release interests me because I hope the others won't be treated the same. I'm sure they won't but I had a dog in the race because someone tried to claim that some part of this cost was for something that didn't make any sense and I explained that. 

 

Its interesting to ask me "why say anything at all?" when just earlier in the thread you complained yourself about the unnecessary costliness of this release. I've been here reinforcing what most people have been saying which is that they feel shafted by the price of this thing and I'm articulating some aspects of why they are right to feel shafted by the price of this release. You, yourself complained about the circumstances of the release in relation to the cost. I'm commiserating with you and those like you. Just because I didn't buy this thing doesn't mean I didn't have anything to add. But I've added it now and some people, whom I was ostensibly defending the honor of in this transaction, have felt insulted. I'm sorry. I never meant to insult any customers. I'm disappointed that people got a product that was grossly overpriced. I never attacked anyone. I'm not sure how I ended up being the bad guy. I'll drop it. I was trying to discuss what I know about the in's and outs of a production like this and suddenly what I said offended people. 

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Considering that every band that has ever released a cheaper 4lp album has had to incorporate studio fees, mixing, mastering time etc into their product costs as well is just another reason to be annoyed about nin charging $80 for this. It's not a legitimate defense.  He just put the word "limited" on this and knew fans would pay the extra difference because of it. At the end of the day i don't think anyone can seriously justify any reason this should be over $50 when we've all seen standard 4lps for under $40 and some real nice 3lp sets in the same range. And I kind of do agree that this release probably took a lot less work and effort to get ready than recording a whole new album (unless you count time from the the previous millennium).

Edited by fish

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