Dustin Kensrue :: The Water and The Blood :: Oct 1 2013

[hippielauryn]

Everybody love everybody. Don't be a bigot.  

[SaulManella]

Sends kids to straight camp.

Worships a man.

[Daniel Dopp]

The book that they use to justify their beliefs has done so much damage to the world that all of the criticism and skepticism is completely deserved.  And having an opinion about "religion" and "god" is a completely different thing than bombing abortion clinics, persecuting gay people, persecuting women, justifying racism and murdering in the name of god, all of which is justified by the bible. 

 

The classic "every Christian must be like those Westboro Baptist idiots" response. This is like saying all Muslims are terrorists. It's ignorant. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think abortion clinics are ever mentioned in the bible. 

 

Stoked to hear a few more tracks off of this.

[Derek™]

Sends kids to straight camp.

Worships a man.

 

> implying 100% of any religion is male.

[Daniel Dopp]

Everybody love everybody. Don't be a bigot.  

 

This.

[jerseydave77]

Because religion blows and gay people are fucking awesome....

 

I am not going to feel bad for the "poor persecuted Christians."  The book that they use to justify their beliefs has done so much damage to the world that all of the criticism and skepticism is completely deserved.  And having an opinion about "religion" and "god" is a completely different thing than bombing abortion clinics, persecuting gay people, persecuting women, justifying racism and murdering in the name of god, all of which is justified by the bible. 

 

 

 

Here's my two cents. I'm going to skip this release and it really bums me out. Even though I'm an atheist, I loved Kensrue's subtle religious undertones in Thrice's music. It was thought provoking and poignant but never outright preachy. The sad thing is he probably reached more people with "Gods word" or whatever with Thrice's music than he ever will with this because when you write songs that have that kind of blatant and over the top message it is going to turn off a whole lot of people.

 

As a "They" I think this is kind of blowing things out of proportion. I'm a converted Episcopalian.  I was married by a Gay Pastor. My Pastor now is a single mother. We run a food pantry that feeds four dozen families in our community and they have no obligation to religion.  I just helped with a drive to create backpacks with supplies for kids to start school - they are being dropped off. Racism, violence and the other gross generalizations you make are absent from my life. Again, I prefer subtlety to faith, that's why I'm passing but you've shown a very different extreme. I don't limit my public service to a church, I volunteer at a Fire Department, on a city commission etc - Religion doesn't rule my life but I find a comfort in the Bible. I've also had a crisis of faith this past year due to repeated personal tragedy and while a faith in God might be shaken/damaged for me at the moment, the community and the decent people I've surrounded myself with at the place I worship has not. 

 

Anyway, there are pretty liberal, rational individuals out there. In fact, I am confident that we are the vast majority. 

 

I'm still not buying this record by the way. 

[The Exquisite Death of NK]

You guys know it's ok to not like something by an artist, right? It seems like a lot of you are about it because it has kensrue's name on it, yet vehemently disagree with Christianity or worship music - this will be a worship album, not his please come home follow up. Might be best for you to skip it and not get super angry at the upfront Christian lyrics.

 

Very good point.  I am not angry about his upfront lyrics, just don't plan on buying it.  I'm bummed about it though because I love Thrice and wanted to like his solo stuff.

 

Just throwing this out there..no one jump down my throat because this is just an observation and it isn't aimed at anyone in particular..but I hate how it's so easy for someone to get called out for being a "homophobe" or a "bigot" or whatever on these boards because they call their close friends "fags" or "gay" or whatever but as soon as a topic that is clearly about a Christian artist is posted, it's okay to make the "religious" jokes and comments. As a believer (not your typical "Christian") it's so frustrating because I know a lot of you guys or gals on here have been hurt or have had a bad experience through someone in the church and its caused a disconnect with others who actually live a true Christian life. Dustin's heart is obviously in the whole Jesus thing right now and it's cool that he has a musical talent and wants to show his heart through what we all know is a special gift that not a lot of us have.. so why is it okay to make the religious jokes?

 

I see your point here.  And as a practicing (though very liberal theologically) Christian, I can relate to your feelings.  But one big difference here is that gays, women, minorities, other religions, and many other marginalized groups have been activity persecuted and excluded by many Christians for their differences.  Many Christians, though obviously not all, can't accept that someone thinks and/or lives differently than them... they have to force their beliefs on others.  Sometimes at the cost of friendships, family relationships, jobs, and in some extreme cases, even lives.  That is A LOT different than making jokes about someone's belief. 

 

I don't know, maybe I've digressed here, but I just think the religious right playing the reverse racism/sexism/sexual preference card is totally bogus. 

 

Come Lord Jesus.

 

Tee-hee.

 

​Edit: In all seriousness, I can't support this because Mars Hill hates gay people and Mark Driscoll is a fucking psycho.  

 

Not to mention the misogyny preached at that church. 

 

 

 

 

After a long post, for me it boils down to this: I really love Thrice and I wanted to get into Dustin's solo stuff, but as soon as he went the Mars Hill theology route, I was completely out.  I just don't want to support that. 

 

And that's OK.  And its OK if someone else is into Dustin still or has differing beliefs or is OK looking past Dustin's beliefs to enjoy his music.  To each their own.

[jerseydave77]

Your final point to Mars Hill is something I left out. Well put and I agree. 

[batman]

have you all heard the new song that was released?

http://altpress.com/features/entry/song_premiere_dustin_kensrue_its_not_enough

 

which actually i guess his band is called the modern post? there's another song here:

http://marshill.com/2012/08/14/the-gospel-comes-against-our-pride-dustin-kensrue-talks-with-pastor-mark

 

and i'm assuming that's the same "grace alone" that's on the full-length.

 

fuck...

[noalarmplanet]

have you all heard the new song that was released?

http://altpress.com/features/entry/song_premiere_dustin_kensrue_its_not_enough

 

which actually i guess his band is called the modern post? there's another song here:

http://marshill.com/2012/08/14/the-gospel-comes-against-our-pride-dustin-kensrue-talks-with-pastor-mark

 

and i'm assuming that's the same "grace alone" that's on the full-length.

 

fuck...

That song ripped off "it's friday I'm in love" hahaha

[isavedlatin54]

My simple reaction:

 

I am not a religious man, I do not believe in any sort of god. this is obviously a worship album, I do enjoy most of Dustin's music and though most of his music has (mostly) subtle religious tones, this is just too much for me to handle. I shall pass.

[amnstypls]

I actually really enjoyed those songs. I don't think I'll buy the record, because I don't think I'd ever listen to it. But as far as "praise and worship" is concerned, those songs were refreshing.

[chutterhanban]

I agree with most of that Justin. That being said, I don't know that people were making jokes, I think it's more been open uncertainty about the blatant display of religion. If Jesse Lacy came out as gay and made songs called "fuck yeah penises" or "Big muscles" or something, I'd be questioning the quality of that too, even though he's an incredible musician. People are concerned about the blatant subject matter, but I don't think anyone here is insulting Christianity itself

I see where you're coming from. Any lyrics that straightforward about any subject would be overbearing if you weren't into that subject. I'm a Christian, live in the Pacific Northwest, and play worship music all the time at my church. Kinda fits for me But man, if this were about anything else, it'd be a little weird.

 

Side note: I loved Senses Fail - "Still Searching" simply because it was about a journey in questioning everything I believe in. And the answer he found was that Christianity was wrong. Sometimes it's interesting just to hear someone's art that is hardcore into whatever they're hardcore into.

[chutterhanban]

also, that's a darn good song.

[SCOTTV]

This album was written for a specific audience.  It was not written with the Thrice audience as the target.  I see a lot of people writing as if they were betrayed by Kensrue.  Artists switch their style to address different targets all the time.  Art is art.  Christianity offends people. Or I should say religion and religiousness offends people.  Just because you do not like the track names doesn't mean it is not good art.  I can't stand what Rage Against the Machine has to say, but their music is awesome.  People don't seem to mind rap music degrating women and homosexuality or movie directors who are pedofiles. But when Christianity is involved, that is where the line is drawn?  Even though the crux of what Kensrue writes about  touch on love, grace, respect, and humility.  Kensrue is a thinker, a philosopher, and a believer.  His lyrics reflect him acknowledging the fact that there is something much bigger than us at work and chooses to believe God is the reason.  How many songs do you listen to that express a point you don't agree with, but you respect it, enjoy it, and sing along with it? 

[FlippingOut]

This album was written for a specific audience.  It was not written with the Thrice audience as the target.  I see a lot of people writing as if they were betrayed by Kensrue.  Artists switch their style to address different targets all the time.  Art is art.  Christianity offends people. Or I should say religion and religiousness offends people.  Just because you do not like the track names doesn't mean it is not good art.  I can't stand what Rage Against the Machine has to say, but their music is awesome.  People don't seem to mind rap music degrating women and homosexuality or movie directors who are pedofiles. But when Christianity is involved, that is where the line is drawn?  Even though the crux of what Kensrue writes about  touch on love, grace, respect, and humility.  Kensrue is a thinker, a philosopher, and a believer.  His lyrics reflect him acknowledging the fact that there is something much bigger than us at work and chooses to believe God is the reason.  How many songs do you listen to that express a point you don't agree with, but you respect it, enjoy it, and sing along with it? 

Well said

[The Exquisite Death of NK]

I see a lot of people writing as if they were betrayed by Kensrue.  Artists switch their style to address different targets all the time.  Art is art. 

 

 

People don't seem to mind rap music degrating women and homosexuality or movie directors who are pedofiles. But when Christianity is involved, that is where the line is drawn? 

 

I am not 'betrayed' by Kensrue, just bummed.  And he is totally welcome to switch his style-- but I am welcome to be bummed and not purchase that art. 

 

 

And to your second point, I TOTALLY mind when rap (or any other art form) degrades women or homosexuals.  Just to say 'people don't mind..." is WAY to broad of a statement.

[TFP]

This album was written for a specific audience.  It was not written with the Thrice audience as the target.  I see a lot of people writing as if they were betrayed by Kensrue.  Artists switch their style to address different targets all the time.  Art is art.  Christianity offends people. Or I should say religion and religiousness offends people.  Just because you do not like the track names doesn't mean it is not good art.  I can't stand what Rage Against the Machine has to say, but their music is awesome.  People don't seem to mind rap music degrating women and homosexuality or movie directors who are pedofiles. But when Christianity is involved, that is where the line is drawn?  Even though the crux of what Kensrue writes about  touch on love, grace, respect, and humility.  Kensrue is a thinker, a philosopher, and a believer.  His lyrics reflect him acknowledging the fact that there is something much bigger than us at work and chooses to believe God is the reason.  How many songs do you listen to that express a point you don't agree with, but you respect it, enjoy it, and sing along with it?

QFT

[radiatorhums]

I liked the single more than I expected to.  I have no interest in Christianity (or religion in general), but I'm more than willing to give this a listen when it's available to me.  A good album is a good album, even if you don't necessarily agree with the lyrical content.  This could be good.  I agree that the track titles are a little discouraging, but I'm not going to completely skip listening to this because of them.  That being said, I'm not sure if I'm willing to order this without hearing it first.  I'm a little weary of how heavily religious it is lyrically.

[jerseydave77]

You joined to make that rant?

Of course artists evolve. No one felt his last solo record was meant to be a Thrice Lp but it was less in your face and more inclusive.

And as the newest asshole on this board let me educate you: 99.9% of the people on here have no tolerance for intolerance. The more ive read about Mars Hill the bigger the fuck you this album gets. If his form of Christianity is informed by their teachings then yes, I have no interest. Ill continue to go to my church where everyone is welcome and accepted for who they are. I can't take Christian songs about love seriously when they come from a sect full of hate for homosexuals and old fashion shunning a for dissent.

[chutterhanban]

You joined to make that rant?

Of course artists evolve. No one felt his last solo record was meant to be a Thrice Lp but it was less in your face and more inclusive.

And as the newest asshole on this board let me educate you: 99.9% of the people on here have no tolerance for intolerance. The more ive read about Mars Hill the bigger the fuck you this album gets. If his form of Christianity is informed by their teachings then yes, I have no interest. Ill continue to go to my church where everyone is welcome and accepted for who they are. I can't take Christian songs about love seriously when they come from a sect full of hate for homosexuals and old fashion shunning a for dissent.

If this were put out by a hypothetical Westboro Baptist Records, I would shun it as well--THAT's a sect full of hate for homosexuals. Mars Hill is more forward about its stand on the social issue than many churches, but there's no hate there. I know it's a thousand-year-old discussion, but it's just "hating the sin." And I don't mean to step on any toes when I say that, I'm just translating more accurately their beliefs. That church/sect and the people in it absolutely LOVE people who are attracted to the same gender, they just draw lines in the sand when it comes to teaching, etc. It's probably a line drawn too early in my opinion as well, but it just isn't accurate to say that they hate homosexuals.

 

And this has no backing whatsoever, but I'd be surprised if Dustin agreed with Mars Hill on all social issues. For someone who spent that much time in "the real world" out touring and living with people who didn't share his beliefs, I like to think he's pretty open to discussion and whatnot. Who knows. EDIT: At the same time, I suppose since he's the head of all music there now, he probably does have to align pretty closely. Hmmm.

[The Exquisite Death of NK]

I keep typing out long responses in this thread and then deleting them.  Its weird to get into big dialogues around the issues being discussed on a message board that is centered around music on vinyl records... I usually have these type of discussions with people I know personally over a meal and some drinks.

 

The bottom line for me is that I am not going to support an artist (who's older art I love) when that artists has now aligned him/herself with a cause/church/movement etc. that aggressively promotes the exact opposite of what I stand for.  And while I am a Christian, the way that the mouth pieces of Mars Hill have spoken about homosexuals, women, the environment, etc. has turned me COMPLETELY off to anyone who is associated with them.  And therefore I wont be buying or listening to this record. 

 

And if you want to, that's totally fine with me.  I'm just going to.

[SeeMoreGlass]

 I can't stand what Rage Against the Machine has to say, but their music is awesome.

 

seriously? I didn't know Paul Ryan posted on VC...

 

 

I agree with your observation that Kensrue is a philosopher and thinker, and with that I have to say that if the songs reflect their song titles in any way shape or form then it is not philosophical. In fact, I will go as far to say that if the songs reflect the song titles at all they are an insult to the music that Dustin has put out before and that is another reason why I would not support this album.

[billya]

That's a pretty bold statement right there at the end.

[Daniel Dopp]

It kinda feels like Dustin is pulling a reverse David Bazan here. Rather than offending all his Christian fans (like Bazan eventually did), Dustin is offending all of his non-Christian fans by being so vocal about his faith. Funny thing is, when Bazan flat out bashed God, Jesus, and everything revolving around Christianity, I still loved the art he created. In fact, I love it that much more because he's so open and real about what's going on inside of him. 

 

I don't agree with Bazan's findings on Christianity, but I will still support him because he's an incredible artist. It boggles my mind that people wouldn't do the same with Dustin.