tgs2 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Based on Ross' "stellar" grammar skills and long, run-on paragraphs that are painful to read, how am I not surprised that there are communication issues with his releases... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhulud Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Can I just say... I'd like to punch Jason Tate in the mouth and make a gif out of it. I just read through that whole thread in AP.net and the level of ignorance and junior lawyer and music business wannabes is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewvandal Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 That was a totally different situation. Ross was new to everyone at the time, was completely unproven as a record label owner and had no track record. He fucked up, and I think he'll willingly admit that. He's since put out dozens of records with all sorts of bands, active and broken up, big and small, and it's clear he's gotten better at what he does, because people continue to work with him and promote the product he creates. Would I reissue something on vinyl without telling the band? No. But clearly, that's not what Ross did here. And the only reason people care is because it's 1)an active band and 2)someone who's easily reachable—aka not Music On Vinyl, 4 Men With Beards, Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs, etc. All of those companies buy the rights to releases all the time and reissue them with all sorts of bells and whistles, likely without the artist's involvement. Do you think those limited colored pressings Newbury Comics are doing are signed off on by the artist 100% of the time? Doubtful. It's an artist's job to create art however they deem appropriate. It's a record company's job to sell that art however they deem appropriate. As someone who has nearly 15 years in "the industry," let me tell you that band members are typically the most out-of-the-loop people when it comes to their own careers, which is why they react emotionally and publicly to things like this instead of trying to politely and professionally get to the bottom of it behind the scenes. Such is the creative mind, I suppose. I like Cartel. I like this record. I like Ross. I bought a copy, which puts money in Ross' pockets, who already put money into Cartel's pockets, because the licensing fee he paid to Epic most likely included royalties. There is no loser in this situation, except people who want to pretend they understand how the music industry works but have literally less than 1% of a clue. Yes. I've used all my upvotes, but count this as an upvote, Scott. Very well said. ajhall04 and enjoytheride 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjb2k1 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I understand that. I was just talking about Matthew Brady over the weekend - he was a photographer back in the day who "photographed" the Civil War, etc. Turns out that, yeah, he may have shot some photographs during the Civil War, but he had a bunch of people working and shooting FOR him taking those photos and each print was stamped with Matthew Brady's name, giving all credit to him rather than the individual who actually pressed the shutter. Legal things are sticky no matter how you look at it, haha. alexander gardner's work is fantastic. i mean he posed the "sharpshooter" but overall it's wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmoney Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I understand that. I was just talking about Matthew Brady over the weekend - he was a photographer back in the day who "photographed" the Civil War, etc. Turns out that, yeah, he may have shot some photographs during the Civil War, but he had a bunch of people working and shooting FOR him taking those photos and each print was stamped with Matthew Brady's name, giving all credit to him rather than the individual who actually pressed the shutter. Legal things are sticky no matter how you look at it, haha. Link for those curious as I was - https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/collections/72157622495226723/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futures Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 alexander gardner's work is fantastic. i mean he posed the "sharpshooter" but overall it's wonderful. Once I learned about the staged imagery I was turned off, haha. I mean, doctored photography happens all the time as an art form, but it shouldn't happen in a documentary/journalism setting. Especially back then because it was unheard of to display any image and have it be fake. Everyone then thought two things: 1. Photography stole your soul, and 2. Every photograph reveals only truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhulud Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 "There is no loser in this situation, except people who want to pretend they understand how the music industry works but have literally less than 1% of a clue." This, courtesy of Mr. Scott Heisel is what everyone should bear in mind when posting on here and offering your "insight" and thought-out comments. If you don't have an understanding, then move along, nothing to see here. travis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfrancese5 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 This thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock N Roll Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Based on Ross' "stellar" grammar skills and long, run-on paragraphs that are painful to read, how am I not surprised that there are communication issues with his releases... You joined VC just to post this? Get the fuck outta here. cfrancese5 and enjoytheride 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enjoytheride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 okay Ross spill it, which band is Jason talking about: http://absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=132069884#post132069884 I am pretty sure he is talking about copeland who after aaron expressed having his own plans (which i messaged him multiple times on social media to run the reissue idea by him). I had already gotten the go ahead from the label at that point but regardless I backed off with no questions asked. I never got contacted by any lawyers at any point with any release. It takes a ton of work time and work to get a release full cleared and worked out so there are many releases in which i get label clearance and then approach the band about their involvement. If a band who i contact expresses having their own re-issue in the works or do not want the album re-issued for whatever reason then I inform the label that I will be moving forward, and that is it. Many releases which still have yet to see a vinyl release or a reissue, which could have happened by ETR have not for that reason. I always try to do right by the artist, as i did by offering cartel copies at cost for this one which they were planning to do until the manager forgot to respond to me with their decision in which time, contracts with label were already signed and things in motion. In my opinion, all of this was due to poor communication between band and management & the band responded in Feb 2013 saying "awesome and interested, speak to our manager..he is the one who handles these matters" and then sent me his contact which was the last contact i had direct with the band. But someone other than their manager responded to that message, unless their manager was responding in the 3rd person. I was also told by a few people that some interview where people outright stated "I heard ETR got the rights to chroma for a vinyl re-issue, how do you feel about that". I hinted on the VC board about getting the rights over a year ago so maybe it was from that but regards...it was something along those lines where I was specifically mentioned to Will. Will responded saying "I know nothing about that or who etr is" I never saw these interview until yesterday but if he that was asked specifically about this when why wouldn't he have asked the manager about it and/or contact me direct at that point. I also contacted will on facebook direct with shows as being read, which i also mentioned yesterday but that is beside the point. The fact that they are outright claiming that we had no prior knowledge of this, is my main issue because i made many efforts to bring it to their attention and work out a deal with them which would benefit everyone and be fair to them. I understand that it sucks not owning the rights to your music which is why i offered them copies at cost, but the reality is that the album is controlled by a major label and the band/manager outright told me that they would love to see a re-issue but cannot even get copies of chroma at wholesale from the label & they have no idea about how to obtain the rights. Yooooo, ACS___, nardes and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACS___ Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I personally don't think Ross went about this the wrong way at all. The band was paid 10 years ago to create an album that Epic then bought the rights to. They had plenty of chances to get in on this release or put a halt to it. They did neither. It's not his fault they were not more communicative from the start. He did not start out this release planning to go ahead without the band's approval. Through their own fault, they were not on top of their game. He did everything right in my opinion. Cartel will still be able to release and likely sell out of their version when/if they decide to go forward with it. And I'll still likely buy that one as well. Really looking forward to receiving this in the mail soon. Thanks for the release, Ross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzersonKillwell Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 We need a "IP Law: How You Don't Understand It And What It Doesn't Mean To You" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomanyrecords Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Based on Ross' "stellar" grammar skills and long, run-on paragraphs that are painful to read, how am I not surprised that there are communication issues with his releases... Look at this guy making an account just to post this insanely retarded comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nardes Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I am pretty sure he is talking about copeland who after aaron expressed having his own plans (which i messaged him multiple times on social media to run the reissue idea by him). I had already gotten the go ahead from the label at that point but regardless I backed off with no questions asked. I never got contacted by any lawyers at any point with any release. It takes a ton of work time and work to get a release full cleared and worked out so there are many releases in which i get label clearance and then approach the band about their involvement. If a band who i contact expresses having their own re-issue in the works or do not want the album re-issued for whatever reason then I inform the label that I will be moving forward, and that is it. Many releases which still have yet to see a vinyl release or a reissue, which could have happened by ETR have not for that reason. I always try to do right by the artist, as i did by offering cartel copies at cost for this one which they were planning to do until the manager forgot to respond to me with their decision in which time, contracts with label were already signed and things in motion. In my opinion, all of this was due to poor communication between band and management & the band responded in Feb 2013 saying "awesome and interested, speak to our manager..he is the one who handles these matters" and then sent me his contact which was the last contact i had direct with the band. But someone other than their manager responded to that message, unless their manager was responding in the 3rd person. I was also told by a few people that some interview where people outright stated "I heard ETR got the rights to chroma for a vinyl re-issue, how do you feel about that". I hinted on the VC board about getting the rights over a year ago so maybe it was from that but regards...it was something along those lines where I was specifically mentioned to Will. Will responded saying "I know nothing about that or who etr is" I never saw these interview until yesterday but if he that was asked specifically about this when why wouldn't he have asked the manager about it and/or contact me direct at that point. I also contacted will on facebook direct with shows as being read, which i also mentioned yesterday but that is beside the point. The fact that they are outright claiming that we had no prior knowledge of this, is my main issue because i made many efforts to bring it to their attention and work out a deal with them which would benefit everyone and be fair to them. I understand that it sucks not owning the rights to your music which is why i offered them copies at cost, but the reality is that the album is controlled by a major label and the band/manager outright told me that they would love to see a re-issue but cannot even get copies of chroma at wholesale from the label & they have no idea about how to obtain the rights. Nailed it on it being Aaron who complained to Jason (I called out/asked Aaron on AP if the was the one that Jason was talking about since nothing of his has ever been released on ETR and yet he said he dealt with him). This is seriously so stupid. It's either the band or their manager's fault that this is happening... and of course no one will EVER take the blame. Thank you Ross for all that you do... you're clearly in the right with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_Nassiff Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Again, how is it Ross's fault for how royalties and licenses are written in the band's contract with the label? Legitimate question: What is Hot Topic's role in this? Do they just have a deal with ETR for distribution? small labels like enjoy the ride can sell records to hot topic at a wholesale price. in that case, hot topic wouldn't be in discussions with the original rights-owner (Sony Music in this situation) for that purchase; they'd just talk directly to enjoy the ride. sometimes the small label will partner with a distro (BTR uses no idea). travis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadDonut Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Bad form Ross. I can't stay quiet seeing people siding with this dude over the band. My dealings with Enjoy the Ride lead me to believe that the guy is uneducated on how record contracts work, or he is completely unethical (or a combo of the two). Maybe he conducted his business properly on this Cartel record. I don't know anything about their deal, but I had a rough time with him. I hope I never have to deal with him again. The fact of the matter is, these vinyl labels don't have to get the band's "permission" to do these reissues, but the fact that most of these old bands are broke and will not see any money from the vinyl, how can you live with yourself making enemies with them?" This is coming from the lead singer of the band that put there album up for preorder and charged $95 for the package with the most limited variant, some art cards, a 10", a poster and a cd. What he said really doesn't make any sense. It sounds like Ross could have pressed some Copeland records and decided not to on account of the band. That doesn't sound very "unethical" to me. Why in the world would he have anything to do with Cartel in the first place? Edit: I couldnt get the quote to quote right so I just copied and pasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfrancese5 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 "Bad form Ross. I can't stay quiet seeing people siding with this dude over the band. My dealings with Enjoy the Ride lead me to believe that the guy is uneducated on how record contracts work, or he is completely unethical (or a combo of the two). Maybe he conducted his business properly on this Cartel record. I don't know anything about their deal, but I had a rough time with him. I hope I never have to deal with him again. The fact of the matter is, these vinyl labels don't have to get the band's "permission" to do these reissues, but the fact that most of these old bands are broke and will not see any money from the vinyl, how can you live with yourself making enemies with them?" This is coming from the lead singer of the band that put there album up for preorder and charged $95 for the package with the most limited variant, some art cards, a 10", a poster and a cd. What he said really doesn't make any sense. It sounds like Ross could have pressed some Copeland records and decided not to on account of the band. That doesn't sound very "unethical" to me. Why in the world would he have anything to do with Cartel in the first place? Edit: I couldnt get the quote to quote right so I just copied and pasted. Wait, who wrote this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shitty Rambo Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Edit: I couldnt get the quote to quote right so I just copied and pasted. I got you homie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadDonut Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Thanks Rambo. Egg posted it on page 16 and it said Aaron Marsh: I'm assuming that is what Marsh had to say about this whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfrancese5 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 "Most of these bands are broke"... so is the rest of America... that's why we got jobs... sorry but I don't feel bad for these dudes at all. jbrana and 3arl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danionly Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 small labels like enjoy the ride can sell records to hot topic at a wholesale price. in that case, hot topic wouldn't be in discussions with the original rights-owner (Sony Music in this situation) for that purchase; they'd just talk directly to enjoy the ride. sometimes the small label will partner with a distro (BTR uses no idea). Thank you kind sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yocaseycasey Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I saw Rocketcat in this thread. It's been a while. jerseydave77, brandy, agaetisbyrjun and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yocaseycasey Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Also, it's news to me that Acceptance wasn't happy with the Black Lines EP. I was told by Ross that it was cleared by the band. That's why I took a variant of it.So Acceptance didn't want their record to come out either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketcat Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I saw Rocketcat in this thread. It's been a while. U know it :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passionbrand Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 isn't the band the first ones to get paid when it comes to these things. didn't they get paid for their publishing and license rights when they signed with the label. if your broke get a job. can't get a job, learn a skill, go back to school, or start shaking what yo momma gave you. these labels front all the cash for recording, touring, advertising, press, merch, etc etc etc and then in the end they look like the bad guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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