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37 minutes ago, rogeoa8 said:

Man, am I sick of hearing this one. People have simply lost the ability to have honest, open, emotionless debate.

Pointing out that a person lacks all the facts of a matter is dishonest and closed debate?  Seems more like you're easily butt-hurt and that needs to be worked on.  I'm more sick of people acting like babies when it's established they haven't thought of all the angles. Fragile male ego shits the bed again.

 

Also, sorry, but there's also no universal expectation for "emotionless" anything. People are not machines.

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2 hours ago, Out Of Time said:

As I just said above, I felt the same at the Detroit date. I can certainly concede to the point that you're making but that doesn't make it cool or okay. Granted I'm just one person, but I don't go out of my way to make anyone LGBT or even otherwise feel uncomfortable. I think it's possible to make a space where both LGBT and hetero people can feel comfortable without alienating or making one group feel uncomfortable. 

And as I stated above. That's one band. And because of that one band we're having this conversation. We don't need to have this conversation because now they don't matter. Feel free to go to literally any other queer bands show and not feel that way. I also would like to ask why you felt uncomfortable? Did they make you afraid to be there? Were people touching you inappropriately? Or did you just not want to hear any reaction to how they're regularly treated? I'm just trying to figure out why there's such a big community reaction here to all these band (singular) treating straight people wrong and not including them equally. lol

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10 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

And as I stated above. That's one band. And because of that one band we're having this conversation. We don't need to have this conversation because now they don't matter. Feel free to go to literally any other queer bands show and not feel that way. I also would like to ask why you felt uncomfortable? Did they make you afraid to be there? Were people touching you inappropriately? Or did you just not want to hear any reaction to how they're regularly treated? I'm just trying to figure out why there's such a big community reaction here to all these band (singular) treating straight people wrong and not including them equally. lol

It reminds me of when I was in college like 10 years ago and a professor explained white privilege and like 20 dudes angrily raised their hands and were like "I'm white and my mom died of cancer and we were poor, so white privilege doesn't exist!"

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8 hours ago, Sunshine said:

In a perfect world. Fact is although it's 2017 equality ain't shit and these groups actually are at disadvantages and do need help. Hence his graphic I assume. If you don't think they have the disadvantage when equality is concerned and everyone is seen the same then that's just ignorance. I'm just confused why anyone is arguing about the community in general when it's literally one shitty band that has already been excommunicated. There's nothing wrong with them celebrating themselves in the same way every other minority does.

 

I've never argued about this before I just think it's funny one post about feeling uncomfortable during a queer bands set provided a voice for everyone else to freely state how they really feel. Which is uncomfortable and confused I guess. How is any of this an issue I don't get it. Can someone provide me with news of queer on straight hate crime?

Not saying they're not at some sort of disadvantage, but it's not a disadvantage that needs to be overcome by allowing them to be discriminatory toward others. Obviously there isn't a full level of equality yet, which is where we need to be. The fact is his graphic puts them in a place saying that they deserve more than equality.

In other words, a more fitting graphic would show that we're all people, so we're all the same height.

There's a huge difference between celebrating your own culture (which I'm totally behind) and putting others in a situation where they feel uncomfortable. Maybe it's just my own thing where I treat everyone the same as human beings, but that's all anyone should expect or need.

 

As to the bolded part...that's how conversations start, dude! :)

 

The italicized part...that's a straw-man argument, dude. We're not arguing whether there is or isn't queer on straight or straight on queer crime. I'm saying mainly just saying homeboy's graphic doesn't fit the situation. Maybe it's because we live in very different areas of the country, but here in Portland most people treat each other with equal levels of respect. I work and hang with members of the LGBTQ community every day, but I don't really think of it as, "I'm hanging out with my lesbian friend," so much as I'm hanging out with my friend." I can see how that influences how I think vs. you living deep in the south.

 

That said, I'm still not saying that there is equity or equality across races/genders/sexual preferences, I'm just saying that equality across all of those are the only way things will actually be "fair" (people are still going to argue about shit anyway).

If everyone was treated equally across all these lines that don't actually matter since we're all human beings, we can start concentrating on some of the other social problems we have which would actually need equity rather than equality.

 

tl;dr: I'm not really even arguing with you, I just wanted to point out that armadillo or whatever the fuck used a graphic that doesn't apply to this specific situation.

Edited by The Ghost of Randy Savage

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49 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

And as I stated above. That's one band. And because of that one band we're having this conversation. We don't need to have this conversation because now they don't matter. Feel free to go to literally any other queer bands show and not feel that way. I also would like to ask why you felt uncomfortable? Did they make you afraid to be there? Were people touching you inappropriately? Or did you just not want to hear any reaction to how they're regularly treated? I'm just trying to figure out why there's such a big community reaction here to all these band (singular) treating straight people wrong and not including them equally. lol

I don't think anyone is saying that there are other bands that do this or that. (one person may have misstated something) But the person you replied to said the same thing that happened to Juan happened to them, the singer or whoever (who we've all agreed is garbage at this point due to their actions) was specifically singling people out and glaring at them based on their perceived gender/sexual preferences.

 

I'm not arguing that all of these bands are doing whatever, I'm just saying that I don't understand why anyone feels the need to make someone feel uncomfortable based on any of this including straight to queer, or the other way around.

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On 5/12/2017 at 5:59 PM, jhulud said:

I have no horse in this race...I'm not over the top about this band. BUT. I've been keeping this in for a while now and just recently shared it with someone from VC.

 

When I went to see Pity Sex and Petal down here last year...I think it was last year...PWR BTTM were one of the openers. I was right up front the whole night b/c I'm really into PS and Petal. So. When PWR BTTM were playing, their entire set during their between-song banter, they were of course praising Queer Culture/Lifestyle (apologies if that's not the proper terminology but for this post to me, also includes gay, trans, etc.), which I am was glad to hear and see and cheered on. But on an odd flipside, they were also bashing on anyone non-queer/gay/trans/etc. and borderline inciting violence against them. But in their I'd guess "joking manner". I honestly felt uncomfortable during their entire set as more than on one occasion during it, I was being squinted at by the band. I know I'm not that hard to blend in being a burly (slight overweight) and bearded dude. Sure, they had no way on knowing I'm a hetero male, but shit, I felt like I had a target on my back for some reason. Felt like guilty for being hetero.

 

This doesn't anything whatsoever to what's been developing with the band currently and the allegations. But damnit...needed to share and just get it  off my chest. Hell...even my friend who I was with that night, who stood towards the back of the crowd, saw all of this going on and she thought (as she told me) that I was going to get my ass kicked that night just for being a dude.

 

The wrong dude and the wrong show as she put it.

 

 

 

On 5/12/2017 at 7:00 PM, ethereal said:

100% felt the same way at this show during our date in LA. I've mentioned it a few times before and got bashed for being "anti LGBT" 

im really glad I'm not alone on this 

The way you felt for 2 hours is how many of the queer people at that show felt the other 22 hours of the day. Queer spaces and events are important for this exact reason.

 

Also, band sucks, members are scum, etc.

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15 minutes ago, ethereal said:

and that makes it right?

Why is it so difficult to understand that this is a very shitty person, who clearly treats people horribly.  THIS PERSON SUCKS, THEYRE HORRIBLE.  They may have glared at you, but they sexually assaulted many others.  Who cares that they are queer.  They treated YOU poorly because they SUCK, just like how any other shitty person in this world would treat others like shit.   

15 minutes ago, ethereal said:

and that makes it right?

Why is it so difficult to understand that this is a very shitty person, who clearly treats people horribly.  THIS PERSON SUCKS, THEYRE HORRIBLE.  They may have glared at you, but they sexually assaulted many others.  Who cares that they are queer.  They treated YOU poorly because they SUCK, just like how any other shitty person in this world would treat others like shit.   

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1 hour ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

I'm not arguing that all of these bands are doing whatever, I'm just saying that I don't understand why anyone feels the need to make someone feel uncomfortable based on any of this including straight to queer, or the other way around.

I wonder how you'd have dealt with Alan Vega of Suicide whipping a chain at the audience when they opened for Elvis Costello in the 70s. I think we've become colossal pussies if we can't handle a little confrontation at shows by bands who we know have a distinctly "edgy" persona. Like playing with fire and expecting not to be burned.

 

However, in context of these two troll-ish schmucks, your point is more than fair since the seem to do it for the lulz and not to make a point about queer rights.

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1 hour ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

Not saying they're not at some sort of disadvantage, but it's not a disadvantage that needs to be overcome by allowing them to be discriminatory toward others. Obviously there isn't a full level of equality yet, which is where we need to be. The fact is his graphic puts them in a place saying that they deserve more than equality.

In other words, a more fitting graphic would show that we're all people, so we're all the same height.

There's a huge difference between celebrating your own culture (which I'm totally behind) and putting others in a situation where they feel uncomfortable. Maybe it's just my own thing where I treat everyone the same as human beings, but that's all anyone should expect or need.

 

As to the bolded part...that's how conversations start, dude! :)

 

The italicized part...that's a straw-man argument, dude. We're not arguing whether there is or isn't queer on straight or straight on queer crime. I'm saying mainly just saying homeboy's graphic doesn't fit the situation. Maybe it's because we live in very different areas of the country, but here in Portland most people treat each other with equal levels of respect. I work and hang with members of the LGBTQ community every day, but I don't really think of it as, "I'm hanging out with my lesbian friend," so much as I'm hanging out with my friend." I can see how that influences how I think vs. you living deep in the south.

 

That said, I'm still not saying that there is equity or equality across races/genders/sexual preferences, I'm just saying that equality across all of those are the only way things will actually be "fair" (people are still going to argue about shit anyway).

If everyone was treated equally across all these lines that don't actually matter since we're all human beings, we can start concentrating on some of the other social problems we have which would actually need equity rather than equality.

 

tl;dr: I'm not really even arguing with you, I just wanted to point out that armadillo or whatever the fuck used a graphic that doesn't apply to this specific situation.

I'm on mobile so no fancy formatting. In reply to your first paragraph again that's a perfect world but sadly respect is hard to come by in normal circumstances let alone when your lifestyle was taught as being wrong and a lot of people agree.

 

 

Portland is literally a bubble for progressive thinking. One of the only places in the country that's very open to most people and lifestyles. But ethnic diversity isn't a thing in Portland despite that. It isn't a deep South thing it's a Portland thing.

 

You won't understand the graphic until you realize just how lopsided the respect is.

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1 hour ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

I don't think anyone is saying that there are other bands that do this or that. (one person may have misstated something) But the person you replied to said the same thing that happened to Juan happened to them, the singer or whoever (who we've all agreed is garbage at this point due to their actions) was specifically singling people out and glaring at them based on their perceived gender/sexual preferences.

 

I'm not arguing that all of these bands are doing whatever, I'm just saying that I don't understand why anyone feels the need to make someone feel uncomfortable based on any of this including straight to queer, or the other way around.

 I'm sorry I can't take you guys seriously if glaring triggers some sort of woe is me situation. A hell of a lot of you seem to agree about this glaring issue (pun that time) but nobody has anything to say that doesn't involve this band. Just an observation.

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1 hour ago, Out Of Time said:

Nothing good is gonna come from this thread. I think that's well established. Lock it up. 

Probably a good idea since everyone who thinks straight inclusion is really important for queer bands to understand has either disappeared or has nothing to say outside of this band.

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4 hours ago, ethereal said:

and that makes it right?

It doesn't. I'm gay and I've absolutely felt that way on a regular basis. Just because I feel discriminated against often in my life, in no way do I want others to feel that way just so they know how I've felt on multiple occasions. I wouldn't want my straight family members and friends to feel that way at all. 

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On 5/13/2017 at 8:09 PM, Shitty Rambo said:

 

This reminds me, I heard a good argument the other day about how self loathing hetero sexual white males use "bro" as a replacement for the the n-word, in that they still have plenty of hate in their hearts and naturally want to marginalize 'other people', because it's human nature, yet still desperately want  to appear like a genuinely good/progressive person.

 

What the fuck?

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