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42 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

Outside of maybe the 1% elsewhere on the internet, with Brand New tattoos and a few pairs of blinders, who’s minimizing this?

On 11/11/2017 at 1:01 PM, Derek™ said:

To play devil's advocate, someone did dig up the girl's Tumblr and (for what it's worth) she's apparently been wrestling with a bipolar disorder, OCD, and a panic disorder for a while now.  Not that any of these things discredit her accusations.  But if her reputation is truly on the line and she has access to proof in the form of Skype logs or whatever, but refuses to dig them up because of the discomfort they cause, I can't not raise a brow, personally.  If you're going to make accusations and have the means of validating them, fine.  But if your proof is down on an old hard drive in your basement, and you don't feel like going down there to retrieve files that indisputably prove your case, you may as well be grasping for straws and slandering.  That's how I feel about it, anyway.

1% my ass. tons of comments here and on socials/other forums, including yours, range from grossly naive to a defense of pedophilia. 

your lil gem, quoted above, belongs to the former. everything you've named here – mental disorders, panic, deep trauma when confronted with dredging things up – is a textbook example of the vile outworkings of grooming, sexual abuse, and manipulation. the fact you interpret it as potential indication of slander is irresponsible and clearly indicates you should not comment so crassly on something you clearly have no experience with.

 

 

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I guess I’ll just agree to disagree, then.  Not once did I say “okay well that girl is openly bipolar so she probably just made this whole thing up”.  If that’s how you’d like to interpret my post, okay, you’re welcome to go for it.  But it’s not what I said.  Before developments were made and hollow apologies were posted, I was in a camp of people willing to hear about more evidence or facts surface before jumping to one conclusion or another.  I feel like I’m being put on full blast because I didn’t immediately side with the first allegation, and because I took a moment to assess the credibility of a piece of the larger picture before we got any other pieces of the puzzle.  I’m not a Lacey apologist and I can’t rationalize his actions.  But I also don’t think anyone is a piece of shit for being initially skeptical about any scenario where something could be proven by the victim, if the victim felt like proving it, but may or may not at their own discretion.

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19 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

I guess I’ll just agree to disagree, then.  Not once did I say “okay well that girl is openly bipolar so she probably just made this whole thing up”.  If that’s how you’d like to interpret my post, okay, you’re welcome to go for it.  But it’s not what I said.  

No, but it is very clearly what you implied. What else were you bringing up her mental condition for? The clear and insidious accusation is that because she suffers from a mental illness, she is untrustworthy.

Edited by easteracrobat

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4 minutes ago, easteracrobat said:

 The clear and insidious accusation is that because she suffers from a mental illness, she is untrustworthy.

I see the statement as she could be untrustworthy rather than is untrustworthy. Might what to take step back on your assumptions 

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21 minutes ago, easteracrobat said:

No, but it is very clearly what you implied. What else were you bringing up her mental condition for? The clear and insidious accusation is that because she suffers from a mental illness, she is untrustworthy.

Exactly! It's gaslighting at a distance, without even the courage to speak clearly. There's no reason and no excuse to mention her mental state, especially not when followed up with the sneakily accusatory, "But if her reputation is truly on the line..." bit. 

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15 minutes ago, Tidal Wave said:

I see the statement as she could be untrustworthy rather than is untrustworthy.

I think that this is what it ultimately boils down to.  I mean, I literally prefaced the paragraph with “to play devil’s advocate” because I knew it presented a slim, unpopular opinion that balances out the more widely accepted line of thought.  There are some reactions and responses so far - pre-band statement - that truly feel like the most Fiction part of the thread, akin to;

 

”Hey guys, maybe we should wait for more accusations or a statement from the band before putting someone on full blast?  Does that seem reasonable or shoul–“

 

”FUCK YOU, YOU PIECE OF SHIT.  Absolutely disgusting.  I bet you’re a closet pedophile yourself, aren’t you?  You fucking miserable excuse for a human being.  How dare you?”

 

Not into that.

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1 minute ago, Derek™ said:

I mean, I literally prefaced the paragraph with “to play devil’s advocate” because I knew it presented a slim, unpopular opinion that balances out the more widely accepted line of thought.

If you're trying to hold back the mob, why not just say that there's no reason to rush to judgement? You say you're playing devil's advocate, but really you're just trotting out the generic playbook for rape denial: he's a good family man and she's mentally ill, repeat until the victim slinks off into a corner and is never heard from again.

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For a group of grown men, there sure are a lot of drama queens in here.

 

I was skeptical of the validity of the claims as well until the statement was released, and I am a woman that has been put in more gross situations than any of you guys would think. It's not such a far fetched notion to acknowledge that anyone can say anything on the internet to gain attention/cause trouble. It's the easiest thing in the world to sit behind your keyboard in the comfort of your home and spread lies. It's also not such a far fetched notion to acknowledge that people we may admire such as Lacey and C.K. might be gross. I think anyone in here that was skeptical were keeping the door open to both possibilities until more information was provided. 

 

Move on. Thank you.

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12 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

I think that this is what it ultimately boils down to.  I mean, I literally prefaced the paragraph with “to play devil’s advocate” because I knew it presented a slim, unpopular opinion that balances out the more widely accepted line of thought. 

sorry, but you can't say something so daft and claim "devil's advocate." "devil's advocate" is reserved for a reasonable presentation of counterfactuals, and the fact you don't realize the first thing about the relationship of abuse, trauma, and mental illness disqualifies you here. as others have said, you're actually gaslighting and victim blaming, and talking out your hiney in doing so. perhaps, to be fair, it was initially an unwitting error on your part. but honestly you can be quiet about how misunderstood you are when your original point is, as you admit yourself, to undermine the credibility of a victim.

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15 minutes ago, Codyoster said:

https://imgur.com/gallery/lODHU

 

The saddest thing about this is a girl posted this

that's a known comedian, troll "meme" account, and it's obviously extremely sarcastic. i think your outrage detector might be malfunctioning ;)

Edited by rooks

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1 hour ago, copelandkid said:

sorry, but you can't say something so daft and claim "devil's advocate." "devil's advocate" is reserved for a reasonable presentation of counterfactuals, and the fact you don't realize the first thing about the relationship of abuse, trauma, and mental illness disqualifies you here. as others have said, you're actually gaslighting and victim blaming, and talking out your hiney in doing so. perhaps, to be fair, it was initially an unwitting error on your part. but honestly you can be quiet about how misunderstood you are when your original point is, as you admit yourself, to undermine the credibility of a victim.

Well, I mean, I can in fact use the phrase “devil’s advocate” to describe my post.

 

dev·il's ad·vo·cate
ˈˌdevəlz ˈadvəkət/
noun
  1. a person who expresses a contentious opinion in order to provoke debate or test the strength of the opposing arguments.
    "the interviewer will need to play devil's advocate to put the other side's case forward"
    • historical
      the popular title of the person appointed by the Roman Catholic Church to challenge a proposed beatification or canonization, or the verification of a miracle.

 

If this whole allegation could be metaphorically painted as a tug-of-war match between Lacey and this girl, I was more interested in seeing the knot placed neutral and center before seeing Lacey metaphorically (and literally) dragged down and pulled through the mud with nothing concretely established.  That’s a contentious opinion that has undoubtedly provoked debate.  Your posts imply that I’ve wanted to grab the rope alongside Jesse and yank “lol crazy ocd girl” down, face first, and discredit everything she’s said.  Couldn’t be further from the truth.  I’m not someone who will be investigating the case – because she did press charges, right? – nor will I be assessing how much impact any sort of mental disorder may or may not have on someone’s credibility, whether it puts extra demand on an investigation, etc.  That’s not up to me.  But considering what bipolar disorder is – you don’t need me to copy and paste a WebMD definition for that, do you? – I thought it was a fair piece of the puzzle to assess in the grander scheme.  I also don’t think that makes me a monster but you’re inclined to feel however you’d like to feel about it.

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22 minutes ago, rooks said:

that's a known comedian, troll "meme" account, and it's obviously extremely sarcastic. i think your outrage detector might be malfunctioning ;)

A girl I follow on Instagram posted the screen shot in a not so humorous manner

 

14 minutes ago, Kanellos said:

Yea I'm inclined to believe that's just edgy humor. If you want to read sad posts go look at the comments on their latest tour cancellation post on Facebook. Mind-boggling stuff.

I don't have a Facebook so I can't read the comments, probably for the best 

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When your first response to accusations that a person who has written and sang about predatory behavior is to scour the accuser's social media for evidence of flaws, then suggest that she's not reliable because she has struggled with mental health, you're the part of the problem. "But if her reputation is truly on the line"... it's not. His is. You just WANT her to be lying.

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13 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

Well, I mean, I can in fact use the phrase “devil’s advocate” to describe my post.

 

dev·il's ad·vo·cate
ˈˌdevəlz ˈadvəkət/
noun
  1. a person who expresses a contentious opinion in order to provoke debate or test the strength of the opposing arguments.
    "the interviewer will need to play devil's advocate to put the other side's case forward"
    • historical
      the popular title of the person appointed by the Roman Catholic Church to challenge a proposed beatification or canonization, or the verification of a miracle.

 

If this whole allegation could be metaphorically painted as a tug-of-war match between Lacey and this girl, I was more interested in seeing the knot placed neutral and center before seeing Lacey metaphorically (and literally) dragged down and pulled through the mud with nothing concretely established.  That’s a contentious opinion that has undoubtedly provoked debate.  Your posts imply that I’ve wanted to grab the rope alongside Jesse and yank “lol crazy ocd girl” down, face first, and discredit everything she’s said.  Couldn’t be further from the truth.  I’m not someone who will be investigating the case – because she did press charges, right? – nor will I be assessing how much impact any sort of mental disorder may or may not have on someone’s credibility, whether it puts extra demand on an investigation, etc.  That’s not up to me.  But considering what bipolar disorder is – you don’t need me to copy and paste a WebMD definition for that, do you? – I thought it was a fair piece of the puzzle to assess in the grander scheme.  I also don’t think that makes me a monster but you’re inclined to feel however you’d like to feel about it.

To sum up what I think your trying to say is, everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but Jesse confessed to being guilty so now it is proven. Derek made that original post before it was proven. So, he was being pretty sensible and logical compared to most people who instantly believed Jesse was guilty without proof or confession. But that's all behind us now, right?

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1 minute ago, Codyoster said:

To sum up what I think your trying to say is, everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but Jesse confessed to being guilty so now it is proven. Derek made that original post before it was proven. So, he was being pretty sensible and logical compared to most people who instantly believed Jesse was guilty without proof or confession. But that's all behind us now, right?

It's quite sensible not to rush to judgment when someone is accused of something without proof. Spreading information about the girl struggling with mental health in an effort to play devil's advocate cast doubt on her story is not. It just perpetuates the rape denial climate that we know is very real. Also his snark and condescension (ie "you don’t need me to copy and paste a WebMD definition for that, do you?", "Delayed thanks to extended production time, to fortify the sleeve so you can’t break it over your head for Likes.") aren't helping his case.

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lol, unrelated to the current back and forth - but do some of you really believe that if someone wrote something then it must be an immediate reflection of themselves, if not completely true and an accurate representation of them as a person? I mean is that real?

2 minutes ago, daniel said:

a person who has written and sang about predatory behavior

 

Like... do you think George Lucas has a lot of space travel or light incest experience?

Did Stephen King hack up his family one winter when he was stuck at a hotel?

Did Conor Oberst's mom really drown his baby brother in a bathtub when he was a kid?

Did Bob Marley really shoot the sheriff and the deputy? Or just the sheriff?

 

Let's get over the fact that lyrics can mean anything and interpretation of their content, when it comes to something like this, is an idiotic waste of time.

 

It was determined back in 2014 that violent rap lyrics could not be used as evidence in court cases... because they are FICTION.

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Just now, rooks said:

lol, unrelated to the current back and forth - but do some of you really believe that if someone wrote something then it must be an immediate reflection of themselves, if not completely true and an accurate representation of them as a person? I mean is that real?

 

Like... do you think George Lucas has a lot of space travel or light incest experience?

Did Stephen King hack up his family one winter when he was stuck at a hotel?

Did Conor Oberst's mom really drown his baby brother in a bathtub when he was a kid?

Did Bob Marley really shoot the sheriff and the deputy? Or just the sheriff?

 

Let's get over the fact that lyrics can mean anything and interpretation of their content, when it comes to something like this, is an idiotic waste of time.

 

It was determined back in 2014 that violent rap lyrics could not be used as evidence in court cases... because they are FICTION.

You have got to be kidding me, dude. Those are ridiculous and fantastical examples. Jesse Lacey literally wrote lyrics about taking advantage of underage girls. After the accusations, you see those lyrics the same way? It's not the same at all.

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Just now, daniel said:

You have got to be kidding me, dude. Those are ridiculous and fantastical examples. Jesse Lacey literally wrote lyrics about taking advantage of underage girls. After the accusations, you see those lyrics the same way? It's not the same at all.

YOU must actually be kidding my friend. 

 

If Stephen King DID suddenly hack his family up one weekend would you look back and say "Oh wow, how'd we not see this one coming boys?? He literally said he was going to do it in the Shining!!"

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