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marc32137

PO - Brand New - Science Fiction

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Don't get me wrong, Jesse was never some weird pinnacle of a good person. I can't imagine I'd be wrong in saying that everyone accepted him as a "broken man" despite that concept being kind of cliched in 2017. Nonetheless, he made great art. The thing is, it isn't just infidelity (if it were that alone, then it would have made sense.) It's the really gross aspect that he manipulated teenagers. 

We all can cherry pick entire songs worth of individual lines that point to Jesse being a shitty dude, I don't think that was ever in question. 

As far as enjoyment goes, that shit is tainted to some degree. This isn't instrumental music and as much as I love Daisy, it's almost irrelevant which member wrote which song. Jesse is still the vocalist. 

I don't really want to hear this guy singing about his woes or trying to create empathetic art with how fresh this news is. But it's tricky, a lot of these albums we've all sat with for years and years, nobody is erasing the fact that they ever once liked them but perception changes. If a victim of abuse told me that they now hate all of their BN albums, by all fucking means I wouldn't question it. 

The same goes in the other direction--these albums got me and a lot of other people out of some tough fucking times. I'm not in any position to invalidate those feelings for anyone. Equally with the casual listener, there's no fiscal support going towards Jesse by still playing these albums. It sucks the rest of the band has to suffer but the fans got shafted in this exchange too. 


I also don't think I actually can separate art//artist all that well. If there's ever been a trying time it's been these past few months. I'm not calling out the people that can but it just isn't something I can do. I make exceptions with literature from a different time, I'm not about to skip out on all of Rudyard Kipling's content because he was a shitty racist. I'm also not going to not read classic manga that suffers from black face, I love all that stuff dearly and I can accept it as a sign of the times. 

It's different with contemporary stuff, these people should have known and done better. (Referring to all of the recent cases and not just Lacey with this last one) 

 

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16 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

Well said, and your points are valid.  But I sort of echo ejc625's post, right above yours.  While it may be true that a lot of "emo" bands dig into personal experiences to determine a cornerstone of their lyrics, the translation of lyrics to real-world experiences can be loosely theorized and applied regardless of era or genre, in my opinion.  And specifically citing the user who's uncomfortable with Sic Transit Gloria (Glory Fades) - now - when the song has been out for 15 years and has always described the story of a sexually experienced woman pushing a man into a sexual scenario... I'm failing to see why we're scoffing at that, today.

Right back at you; I appreciate the thoughtful response! It's always difficult to keep an art object safe from interpretations that base themselves on the creator's intentions (or unintended consequences of the creator's actions). It's just as difficult to safeguard any single interpretation from the plausibility or desirability of others. For instance, reinterpreting a song that was always assumed to be about, as you succinctly put it, "a sexually experienced woman pushing a man into a sexual scenario" in a way that suits the current picture of Lacey requires very little imagination, only the suggestion that Jesse swapped gender roles in the lyrics in a moment of artistic license (or, more cynically, for the sake of plausible deniability), to reinterpret it as autobiographical, about his coercion of a younger woman. My point here is not to push back on the conventional interpretation, but to suggest that the canonical take on any single Brand New's song is jeopardized, and with reasons that go beyond the recent scandal. Reasons that have to do with the claim such "emo" bands have to be writing about lived, or at least plausible and relatable, experience.

Edited by copelandkid
clarity

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6 hours ago, famousdrumer said:

for all the people getting rid of there Brand New records, do you all of a sudden hate the band and music? seems a little dramatic dont ya think?

 

4 hours ago, My Upvote is A Downvote said:

cash and social tokens sound much better than Brand New!!

 

31 minutes ago, rooks said:

So don't listen 

duh

it's stated for the posters above that question why someone might not want to listen

the point is, it doesn't actually fucking matter because practically all stances other than "well what Jesse did wasn't actually wrong" (or any dumb iteration) are pretty valid

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12 minutes ago, Multiverse said:

 

 

duh

it's stated for the posters above that question why someone might not want to listen

the point is, it doesn't actually fucking matter because practically all stances other than "well what Jesse did wasn't actually wrong" (or any dumb iteration) are pretty valid

The point is, no one needs ten paragraphs on why you think it's okay to forgive blackface and racism, but Jesse went TOO FAR to even separate his actions from 10+ years ago from the music he helped make. 

 

 I think we can all agree that he fucked up, and what he did was fucked up. All this diatribe nonsense digging into lyrics and feelings... who cares. None of us know Jesse. Idgaf about Jesse. I know Brand New, they wrote some pretty chill tunes that I've listened to for 16 years. 

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1 hour ago, rooks said:

The point is, no one needs ten paragraphs on why you think it's okay to forgive blackface and racism, but Jesse went TOO FAR to even separate his actions from 10+ years ago from the music he helped make. 

 

 I think we can all agree that he fucked up, and what he did was fucked up. All this diatribe nonsense digging into lyrics and feelings... who cares. None of us know Jesse. Idgaf about Jesse. I know Brand New, they wrote some pretty chill tunes that I've listened to for 16 years. 



aaaaaaand that's the internet

enjoy the chill tunes bruh 

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It's is now everyone's duty to end every post with "The very limited vinyl hasn't shipped yet" 

 

I'll just beat this dead horse: No one is obligated to separate art from artist. No one is obligated to not. Enjoying/not enjoying art is a personal choice. Personally, I typically choose to stop supporting artists when they turn out to be abusers. But it's almost never black and white. I don't pay to see new Roman Polanski films, but Rosemary's Baby and Repulsion are still good films that I'll probably rewatch (pirated or streaming).

 

 

The limited vinyl still has not shipped.

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Brian K Diaz, the guitar tech who started the shitstorm, have basically just denounced the girl who made the first accusation:

 

"Hello. I was directed to you because you seem to be doing some sort of research into claims of misconduct sparked by a Facebook post which I've since made private (along with my social media presence) in the interest of my safety, and the safety of my family and friends who were being contacted by random strangers. In the interest of setting the record straight regarding some of the speculation, and to inject some clarity specifically about myself I ask that you bear with me and read this through.

Facts about me: - I am from Long Island, NY originally. I haven't lived there in nearly 20 years. - My band The Reunion Show, which including future and current ex-member of Brand New, Derrick Sherman toured and played shows with Brand New a fair amount 2001-2003, including a show - maybe 2? - in Buffalo. - After my band broke up I was a guitar tech for Brand New from September 2003 to April/May 2004. I left of my own accord as they stopped touring for a bit and I began working for Motion City Soundtrack for many years. - I was never fired from any of my touring jobs and I don't currently work with Derrick. In fact we haven't seen each in person in years (3-4 years at this point?) and speak only occasionally via text. - A screenshot in question mentions me commenting on something that Nicole posted on my page. I remarked that it was "funny". If you read that article it has nothing to do with fake IDs being procured for the purpose of meeting bands. It was from a tour we did with Wiz Khalifa where a lot of kids were getting busted underage drinking and smoking weed. Sure, it was "funny". Nothing really to infer from that.

It has been widely speculated by you and your researchers that I am a close friend of person #1, Nicole Garey. I think that relationship may be a bit exaggerated. Considering my line of work, I meet many people in a variety of cities all over the world. She is someone that I've kept in touch with, more so in the last 6 years or so. She was quite young when I first met her as a fan of my band, and she was just that - a fan. Whether she met the accused in that same time period is something that isn't known to me, other than through what she has claimed. I wouldn't be able to tell you with accuracy when they met. I've maintained contact with her throughout the years, but do not see her or talk to her in person as often as implied. While I do know her, and I do know that I met her at one of our shows when she was quite young, I never knew the extent of her relationships with any band members that I was friends with, or were in a band with, or who I'd worked for. I do know, however, in the last year several times she's contacted me via Facebook, and posted on her personal account stories of having been manipulated at a very young age in a questionable manner by this person. Prior to 2016 I didn't know about this, but just the thought of it weighed on me heavily. Not as a close friend, or an ex-employee of this person, or whatever, but as a human. I knew as much as anyone else that Jesse was most likely involved in quite a few sexual situations which were an open secret amongst friends, but out of the range of my judgement (I.e. I don't care if you sleep around with consent it's not none of my business). However this one thing stuck with me, mainly because it sounded oddly familiar to something I had heard from another friend in passing years earlier, but at the time didn't put enough weight into. As you know by now, that person is Emily Driskill, who also spoke on record about her experiences as a teenager. On the evening that I posed the question - again, no allegation made by me - I was merely trying to bring up something that was already bubbling on the surface. It seemed like when I asked around, people had known about this already in the past but it never stuck before. As you know, that was not the case this time, and here we are.

Speculation that I did this as some sort of "revenge" for Derrick and him leaving Brand New is off base. I've seen his personal affairs discussed by strangers on the internet already and out of respect for him spared him the rehashing of those details. I wish I could say the same for everyone else. In the end his story involved two consenting adults, so to me that is a non-story because that, again, is none of my business. I wasn't encouraged nor did I collaborate with anyone else when I first brought this stuff up. This was something that I've seen discussed by your researchers that I've never mentioned and isn't accurate.

As a result of this, a third woman came forward named Leah Cunningham who I do remember as someone I'd met from my brief time touring with Brand New. Her allegations seem to match the pattern of allegations that came out this past week. Whether she wants to pursue any sort of action is solely up to her. I merely provided a forum for discussion. I realize that my wording and questioning came off as accusatory and/or loaded but it was meant as a question not a way to dredge. The information provided by these women was something that had already been discussed in the open before, and I just amplified those voices. The fact that so many people have come forward with a story of some kind is not a reflection on me; it's a reflection on him. Maybe this all does deserve your time and thought.

Something that keeps getting brought up is the "whataboutism" scenario regarding my current and past employers and other members of bands in the related scene. The thing is, I can't speak to that because as of now no one has come forward to make those claims. Not to the press, and not to me personally. Not anything of this magnitude, and certainly not now. Again, I can't make a moral judgement on someone because they sleep with a lot of women. That's their own business. Any sort of claim of wrong doing has long been debunked, and if you and your people are seriously trying to stay on track with trying to build a timeline it's probably best you don't muck it up with details about something unrelated that doesn't hold water. Anything that people are speculating without an accuser is just that - speculation. Any continued effort to go down that route is only going to be met with no answers from me because I literally don't have any.

I have no ill will towards the band Brand New. I have screenshots from Facebook from as recently as 2015-16 singing the praises of their music (no way I'm making my FB public again btw, so screenshots it is). I own their albums. I owe my start in touring as a tech to Brian Lane. I don't know what else to say. You can choose to believe these women or not. You can believe me or not. That is entirely up to you, but please at least do your part in clearing a bit off my name as there is some wild misinformation out there."

 

It looks like he is trying to save his ass

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11 minutes ago, hyperg1ant said:

Brian K Diaz, the guitar tech who started the shitstorm, have basically just denounced the girl who made the first accusation:

 

"Hello. I was directed to you because you seem to be doing some sort of research into claims of misconduct sparked by a Facebook post which I've since made private (along with my social media presence) in the interest of my safety, and the safety of my family and friends who were being contacted by random strangers. In the interest of setting the record straight regarding some of the speculation, and to inject some clarity specifically about myself I ask that you bear with me and read this through.

Facts about me: - I am from Long Island, NY originally. I haven't lived there in nearly 20 years. - My band The Reunion Show, which including future and current ex-member of Brand New, Derrick Sherman toured and played shows with Brand New a fair amount 2001-2003, including a show - maybe 2? - in Buffalo. - After my band broke up I was a guitar tech for Brand New from September 2003 to April/May 2004. I left of my own accord as they stopped touring for a bit and I began working for Motion City Soundtrack for many years. - I was never fired from any of my touring jobs and I don't currently work with Derrick. In fact we haven't seen each in person in years (3-4 years at this point?) and speak only occasionally via text. - A screenshot in question mentions me commenting on something that Nicole posted on my page. I remarked that it was "funny". If you read that article it has nothing to do with fake IDs being procured for the purpose of meeting bands. It was from a tour we did with Wiz Khalifa where a lot of kids were getting busted underage drinking and smoking weed. Sure, it was "funny". Nothing really to infer from that.

It has been widely speculated by you and your researchers that I am a close friend of person #1, Nicole Garey. I think that relationship may be a bit exaggerated. Considering my line of work, I meet many people in a variety of cities all over the world. She is someone that I've kept in touch with, more so in the last 6 years or so. She was quite young when I first met her as a fan of my band, and she was just that - a fan. Whether she met the accused in that same time period is something that isn't known to me, other than through what she has claimed. I wouldn't be able to tell you with accuracy when they met. I've maintained contact with her throughout the years, but do not see her or talk to her in person as often as implied. While I do know her, and I do know that I met her at one of our shows when she was quite young, I never knew the extent of her relationships with any band members that I was friends with, or were in a band with, or who I'd worked for. I do know, however, in the last year several times she's contacted me via Facebook, and posted on her personal account stories of having been manipulated at a very young age in a questionable manner by this person. Prior to 2016 I didn't know about this, but just the thought of it weighed on me heavily. Not as a close friend, or an ex-employee of this person, or whatever, but as a human. I knew as much as anyone else that Jesse was most likely involved in quite a few sexual situations which were an open secret amongst friends, but out of the range of my judgement (I.e. I don't care if you sleep around with consent it's not none of my business). However this one thing stuck with me, mainly because it sounded oddly familiar to something I had heard from another friend in passing years earlier, but at the time didn't put enough weight into. As you know by now, that person is Emily Driskill, who also spoke on record about her experiences as a teenager. On the evening that I posed the question - again, no allegation made by me - I was merely trying to bring up something that was already bubbling on the surface. It seemed like when I asked around, people had known about this already in the past but it never stuck before. As you know, that was not the case this time, and here we are.

Speculation that I did this as some sort of "revenge" for Derrick and him leaving Brand New is off base. I've seen his personal affairs discussed by strangers on the internet already and out of respect for him spared him the rehashing of those details. I wish I could say the same for everyone else. In the end his story involved two consenting adults, so to me that is a non-story because that, again, is none of my business. I wasn't encouraged nor did I collaborate with anyone else when I first brought this stuff up. This was something that I've seen discussed by your researchers that I've never mentioned and isn't accurate.

As a result of this, a third woman came forward named Leah Cunningham who I do remember as someone I'd met from my brief time touring with Brand New. Her allegations seem to match the pattern of allegations that came out this past week. Whether she wants to pursue any sort of action is solely up to her. I merely provided a forum for discussion. I realize that my wording and questioning came off as accusatory and/or loaded but it was meant as a question not a way to dredge. The information provided by these women was something that had already been discussed in the open before, and I just amplified those voices. The fact that so many people have come forward with a story of some kind is not a reflection on me; it's a reflection on him. Maybe this all does deserve your time and thought.

Something that keeps getting brought up is the "whataboutism" scenario regarding my current and past employers and other members of bands in the related scene. The thing is, I can't speak to that because as of now no one has come forward to make those claims. Not to the press, and not to me personally. Not anything of this magnitude, and certainly not now. Again, I can't make a moral judgement on someone because they sleep with a lot of women. That's their own business. Any sort of claim of wrong doing has long been debunked, and if you and your people are seriously trying to stay on track with trying to build a timeline it's probably best you don't muck it up with details about something unrelated that doesn't hold water. Anything that people are speculating without an accuser is just that - speculation. Any continued effort to go down that route is only going to be met with no answers from me because I literally don't have any.

I have no ill will towards the band Brand New. I have screenshots from Facebook from as recently as 2015-16 singing the praises of their music (no way I'm making my FB public again btw, so screenshots it is). I own their albums. I owe my start in touring as a tech to Brian Lane. I don't know what else to say. You can choose to believe these women or not. You can believe me or not. That is entirely up to you, but please at least do your part in clearing a bit off my name as there is some wild misinformation out there."

 

It looks like he is trying to save his ass

  So, what’s the story behind Derrick Sherman and leaving the band? 

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2 hours ago, hyperg1ant said:

Brian K Diaz, the guitar tech who started the shitstorm, have basically just denounced the girl who made the first accusation:

Didn't look to me like he "denounced" her in any way. Just said he didn't know her as well as people on the internet were speculating.

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14 minutes ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

Didn't look to me like he "denounced" her in any way. Just said he didn't know her as well as people on the internet were speculating.

It was like "I dont know that girl that well, so, there is a possibility that her allegation is false, sorry about that"

Edited by hyperg1ant
Double post

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2 hours ago, hyperg1ant said:

Brian K Diaz, the guitar tech who started the shitstorm, have basically just denounced the girl who made the first accusation:

 

8 minutes ago, hyperg1ant said:

It was like "I dont know that girl that well, so, there is a possibility that her allegation is false, sorry about that"

 

That's not at all the impression I get. Nothing in there even remotely suggests the "possibility that her accusation is false".

 

It reads like he's just trying to distance himself from the whole thing. 

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Not to sound too redundant, but yeah; we should probably refrain from using words like “denounced” if we truly have no idea what they mean.

 

But even so, let’s say - purely hypothetically - that Diaz’s article did denounce Garey’s claim... so what?  Does that instantly negate everyone else’s allegations?  Garey’s case was the first to surface, but even if it was somehow disproven, are there people out there hoping that the rest of the girl’s stories will follow suit and topple like dominos?

 

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

His text: Hi I don't know anything about anyone but Jesse did it plz don't sue me lol I love Brand New!

This is 100% “the point” of that statement.

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