V3XED Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) Hey guys/gals, I recently made a big purchase on a super hard to find record. Seller listed it as 'mint' condition for the vinyl itself because he had never spun it, claiming to have removed the shrink only to check the color (allegedly). So this thing shows up in the mail, and 3/4 sides of the album have visible scratches on them from dirt in the innersleeve getting rubbed around near the edge. Needless to say I am bummed. Do you think it was fair to list this as mint? Or should he have visually inspected the media considering it was open anyways? It's the most I have ever spent on a record so I'm a bit peeved. Lastly, what would y'all grade the record now knowing it has scratches, VG+? VG? I listened closely and wasn't able to notice any effect on playback, still sounds excellent. Thanks! Edited August 23, 2018 by V3XED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museummouth Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 What record was it? aopps42 and Group Buy Guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I’d say as long as it plays and sounds good, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. I get that it’s super annoying, but when it comes down to it, how often are you going to just sit and stare at the record itself? Group Buy Guy, shenanigans and aopps42 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryalan Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) It pisses me off that people list anything as Mint. Unless the record is still sealed with zero wear or dents it should be listed at NM or below. Sellers at fault for not grading shit correctly. However, if you're spending over $100 on a hard-to-find record I would always ask the seller to re-inspect and re-grade the item and send photos from all angles. Edited August 23, 2018 by angryalan texan4life, V3XED and freezeflash 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Hundred Fifty-Two Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 As a seller Never list a record as mint. As a buyer never expect a record to come in mint condition. Think about the wear a record gets before coming to you. Plant > label > distribution > original purchaser > resale purchaser that is a lot of room for error with slight pressing defects occurring prior to it ever being shipped freezeflash, poweredbytrust, V3XED and 3 others 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, angryalan said: It pisses me off that people list anything as Mint. Unless the record is still sealed with zero wear or dents it should be listed at NM or below. Sellers at fault for not grading shit correctly. However, if you're spending over $100 on a hard-to-find record I would always ask the seller to re-inspect and re-grade the item and send photos from all angles. What if the record was never sealed from production, and the seller didn’t remove the record from the sleeve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skacel Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 30 minutes ago, V3XED said: Hey guys/gals, I recently made a big purchase on a super hard to find record. Seller listed it as 'mint' condition for the vinyl itself because he had never spun it, claiming to have removed the shrink only to check the color (allegedly). So this thing shows up in the mail, and 3/4 sides of the album have visible scratches on them from dirt in the innersleeve getting rubbed around near the edge. Needless to say I am bummed. Do you think it was fair to list this as mint? Or should he have visually inspected the media considering it was open anyways? It's the most I have ever spent on a record so I'm a bit peeved. Lastly, what would y'all grade the record now knowing it has scratches, VG+? VG? I listened closely and wasn't able to notice any effect on playback, still sounds excellent. Thanks! If it plays ok and you want to keep it then complain and try and get some money back. Grading should be on the conservative side, especially selling second hand. Chrundle The Great 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyFrosted Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Okami said: What if the record was never sealed from production, and the seller didn’t remove the record from the sleeve. Then that particular record has had way more chances to get scratched / acquire dust / roll around in the jacket and cause impacts / etc. Don’t list as mint. angryalan up up there is right. If it’s anything other than completely sealed, it shouldn’t be listed as Mint media, and if a seller lists as Mint and mentions it’s open or ‘just opened to view color’ then it’s not mint. Sellers should be more careful and factual but buyers should be more aware that most people don’t grade correctly. If the sound is messed up, I’d return that immediately. If it’s just non-audible paper scuffs on a rare irreplaceable record, I’d probably just suck it up. angryalan and V3XED 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Why would a record in a proper sleeve and gatefold, but but not in shrink have a better chance of being NM compared to Mint, because the shrink wrap protect against scratches. So for instance many of the Hendrix reissue are in those poly bags not sure of the name exactly. Those reissues have a better chance of being NM than a simple shrink wrapped standard gatefold record. I have had quite a few shrink wrapped records that you can feel the record moving back and forth within the sleeve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk99 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I never list or catalog as mint. Also, unless this person has never sold a record before, if they took it out to inspect the color they should have seen wear. I mostly care about the sounds. Superficial scuffs may be visible when you pull it out, but when it spins you don't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobyblue Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I only list records as MINT if they're sealed, because MINT means brand new. If it's a UK record that didn't come sealed as is the case sometimes, I list as NM and use the description to note that it has never been played but was never sealed. Always best to grade conservatively OR as close to Goldmine as you can. I would have no hesitation to return the item if it was listed as MINT but has a large scratch on one side, that is NOT mint. V3XED 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 The only way any of this matters is if you plan to re-sell it in the future Group Buy Guy and gazzo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NapalmBrain Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 to answer your question a record with light visible scratches that do not affect play are considered VG+. Usually has to be deeper or more plentiful scratches that cause some surface noise to fall under VG. I never grade an open record as mint just to cover my ass in case of a picky collector, I usually undergrade in general to avoid this V3XED 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V3XED Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Damn, clearly a hot button issue. Thanks for all the input. I won't disclose how much I paid. But the record was the first pressing of Periphery's self titled record. Only three variants were made of 50 copies each. Also the reason I ask about how it would be currently graded is I like to keep my discoggs catalouge up to date and as descriptive as possible. And who knows, far down the road I could resell. I did request photos, and got images of the sleeve which the seller conservatively graded as VG. (More VG+). So I assumed he had conservatively graded the media as well, and didn't request additional photos. I had hoped for NM-, clealry a mistake. Next time I will ask for a full set! Last but not least, I am still stoked to own the record, and I agree it's a minor issue. But it's analogous to buying a 'like new' car from the lot and finding out it already has a ding on 3 of 4 doors. Just annoying. And if I had known I would have negotiated for a slightly lower price. Thanks Fam. Stay lit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown pleasures Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I think we’re all missing the real question: did it or did it not taste like mint? faaip de oiad, Tommy, erasedtapes and 3 others 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblivions Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 The short answer is that Mint means everything (audio, surface appearance, etc) is absolutely perfect, so, if everything isn't absolutely perfect, it is not Mint. The longer answer is that Mint means everything (audio, surface appearance, etc) is absolutely perfect, so, if everything isn't absolutely perfect, it is not Mint. All joking aside, no one can really argue whether a record with visible scratches is or isn't Mint, because it's clearly not. What they can do is rope you into a sub-argument about whether it matters, whether it means you only care about looks and aren't an actual music fan, etc etc. IMO, when people use Mint, they are using an unofficial abstraction of the grade that basically means "NEW" or "Hey, this looks practically new, gimme a break over here!" and they do it because they want to sell their record quick and for as much as they can get for it. There are also some sellers who might be genuinely naive to the standard grading definitions or who have developed their own grading system pre-internet and everything above VG is Mint to them, etc. If I'm selling a record, whether it's brand new or only played once or 100 years old, and it plays with no surface noise but has visible scuffing, it is VG+. I'm not a huge bulk seller but I sell a fair amount of records and I've had no trouble moving VG+ graded records that are priced well. I've never had anyone contact me to say I overgraded a VG+ record but I have had people (nicely but incorrectly) tell me the record was way better condition than VG+. Someone left a review once that said "LP was better than Mint!" which seems impossible but was a nice feedback comment. V3XED 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Hundred Fifty-Two Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 On discogs you have a separate listing for collection and for sale. So your reasoning is flawed (like the Record). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faaip de oiad Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Yes he/she should have visually inspected the disc. And any hairlines would've instantly knocked it down a notch from mint (that is if never played). Maybe could've passed as NM. But def not Mint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apirk Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Tidal Wave said: As a seller Never list a record as mint. As a buyer never expect a record to come in mint condition. Think about the wear a record gets before coming to you. Plant > label > distribution > original purchaser > resale purchaser that is a lot of room for error with slight pressing defects occurring prior to it ever being shipped Pretty much what I do, honestly You have no idea what the other person would consider mint V3XED 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, Tidal Wave said: On discogs you have a separate listing for collection and for sale. So your reasoning is flawed (like the Record). Huh? You click a button on anything in your collection and it'll be for sale. Pretty good feature and saves time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Anyways, I never buy records used because even if they were played once chances are it was invisibly ruined by a crosley. Most people buying hundred dollar records have a $50 turntable it's disturbing. shenanigans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faaip de oiad Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, ✦ S U N S H I N E ✦ 日 光 ♡♡ said: Anyways, I never buy records used because even if they were played once chances are it was invisibly ruined by a crosley. This is what I invariably fear every time I shop at used record stores... shenanigans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shenanigans Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 5 hours ago, HoneyFrosted said: Then that particular record has had way more chances to get scratched / acquire dust / roll around in the jacket and cause impacts / etc. Don’t list as mint. angryalan up up there is right. If it’s anything other than completely sealed, it shouldn’t be listed as Mint media, and if a seller lists as Mint and mentions it’s open or ‘just opened to view color’ then it’s not mint. Sellers should be more careful and factual but buyers should be more aware that most people don’t grade correctly. If the sound is messed up, I’d return that immediately. If it’s just non-audible paper scuffs on a rare irreplaceable record, I’d probably just suck it up. 4 hours ago, dobyblue said: I only list records as MINT if they're sealed, because MINT means brand new. If it's a UK record that didn't come sealed as is the case sometimes, I list as NM and use the description to note that it has never been played but was never sealed. Always best to grade conservatively OR as close to Goldmine as you can. I would have no hesitation to return the item if it was listed as MINT but has a large scratch on one side, that is NOT mint. These. I never list anything as mint, sealed or not. Anyone unwilling to buy a record because it's not mint shouldn't be buying mailorder. That being said, the buyer knew the record was opened so shouldn't be expecting a mint condition record either. 3 hours ago, V3XED said: Damn, clearly a hot button issue. Thanks for all the input. I won't disclose how much I paid. But the record was the first pressing of Periphery's self titled record. Only three variants were made of 50 copies each. Also the reason I ask about how it would be currently graded is I like to keep my discoggs catalouge up to date and as descriptive as possible. And who knows, far down the road I could resell. I did request photos, and got images of the sleeve which the seller conservatively graded as VG. (More VG+). So I assumed he had conservatively graded the media as well, and didn't request additional photos. I had hoped for NM-, clealry a mistake. Next time I will ask for a full set! Last but not least, I am still stoked to own the record, and I agree it's a minor issue. But it's analogous to buying a 'like new' car from the lot and finding out it already has a ding on 3 of 4 doors. Just annoying. And if I had known I would have negotiated for a slightly lower price. Thanks Fam. Stay lit Only analagous if you're buying cars through the mail. Like Skacel said, it's not mint as it was listed so message the seller and try to get some $$ back, but I wouldn't expect any help from paypal/ebay unless you're willing to return it completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shenanigans Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 2 hours ago, ✦ S U N S H I N E ✦ 日 光 ♡♡ said: Anyways, I never buy records used because even if they were played once chances are it was invisibly ruined by a crosley. Most people buying hundred dollar records have a $50 turntable it's disturbing. I kind of want discogs to put a "setup" section so you can check to make sure sellers don't have crosley's before buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 2 hours ago, VinylMario said: This is what I invariably fear every time I shop at used record stores... I think almost every store near me actually has a turntable (or two) set up in show so you can test used stuff. faaip de oiad and V3XED 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.