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For a group of grown men, there sure are a lot of drama queens in here. I was skeptical of the validity of the claims as well until the statement was released, and I am a woman that has been put in more gross situations than any of you guys would think. It's not such a far fetched notion to acknowledge that anyone can say anything on the internet to gain attention/cause trouble. It's the easiest thing in the world to sit behind your keyboard in the comfort of your home and spread lies. It's also not such a far fetched notion to acknowledge that people we may admire such as Lacey and C.K. might be gross. I think anyone in here that was skeptical were keeping the door open to both possibilities until more information was provided. Move on. Thank you.

Lock it up.

If you're trying to hold back the mob, why not just say that there's no reason to rush to judgement? You say you're playing devil's advocate, but really you're just trotting out the generic playbook for rape denial: he's a good family man and she's mentally ill, repeat until the victim slinks off into a corner and is never heard from again.

RT has an exclusive 3xLP https://roughtrade.com/gb/music/all-melody

It's quite sensible not to rush to judgment when someone is accused of something without proof. Spreading information about the girl struggling with mental health in an effort to play devil's advocate cast doubt on her story is not. It just perpetuates the rape denial climate that we know is very real. Also his snark and condescension (ie "you don’t need me to copy and paste a WebMD definition for that, do you?", "Delayed thanks to extended production time, to fortify the sleeve so you can’t break it over your head for Likes.") aren't helping his case.

When your first response to accusations that a person who has written and sang about predatory behavior is to scour the accuser's social media for evidence of flaws, then suggest that she's not reliable because she has struggled with mental health, you're the part of the problem. "But if her reputation is truly on the line"... it's not. His is. You just WANT her to be lying.

No, but it is very clearly what you implied. What else were you bringing up her mental condition for? The clear and insidious accusation is that because she suffers from a mental illness, she is untrustworthy.

I guess I’ll just agree to disagree, then. Not once did I say “okay well that girl is openly bipolar so she probably just made this whole thing up”. If that’s how you’d like to interpret my post, okay, you’re welcome to go for it. But it’s not what I said. Before developments were made and hollow apologies were posted, I was in a camp of people willing to hear about more evidence or facts surface before jumping to one conclusion or another. I feel like I’m being put on full blast because I didn’t immediately side with the first allegation, and because I took a moment to assess the credibility of a piece of the larger picture before we got any other pieces of the puzzle. I’m not a Lacey apologist and I can’t rationalize his actions. But I also don’t think anyone is a piece of shit for being initially skeptical about any scenario where something could be proven by the victim, if the victim felt like proving it, but may or may not at their own discretion.

Well, nice thread. Got three or four new VC posters I know are awful people. Easily the grossest thing I've read on here.

I guess they will look nice sitting next to your lostprophets collection.

Im glad all these social science degrees are finally getting some use.

I’d just like to know when my white copy is going to ship.

It's been a rough day around here at the VC... let it slide, my friend... let it ride easy down the road. Edit: You're also in a JTB thread, so I wouldn't have been as surprised if I thought people were being a little too overly emotional or sensitive.

Yeah can we lock this or make a thread to talk about it in everything else? I just want updates on the deluxe vinyl.

can't say i'm surprised. dine alone pretty much enables this kind of behavior when they release something like that.

I never said I thought we should've seen the Lacey stuff coming. Nowhere in my posts did I suggest that. I've been a Brand New fan since Deja and always assumed (hoped?) he was writing characters as a means to criticize problematic behavior. I can't see the lyrics the same way anymore, because I'm a rational person who is considering that maybe someone I admired and gave the benefit of the doubt to for years didn't deserve it.

Thanks for this, though the site appears to have crashed.

Exactly! It's gaslighting at a distance, without even the courage to speak clearly. There's no reason and no excuse to mention her mental state, especially not when followed up with the sneakily accusatory, "But if her reputation is truly on the line..." bit.

1% my ass. tons of comments here and on socials/other forums, including yours, range from grossly naive to a defense of pedophilia. your lil gem, quoted above, belongs to the former. everything you've named here – mental disorders, panic, deep trauma when confronted with dredging things up – is a textbook example of the vile outworkings of grooming, sexual abuse, and manipulation. the fact you interpret it as potential indication of slander is irresponsible and clearly indicates you should not comment so crassly on something you clearly have no experience with.

“I am going to completely smear this man’s reputation after a decade by revisiting this experience and bringing it to the public. I could potentially prove that what I am saying is 100% true, but I don’t know if I feel like revisiting the experience.” Alright man. Because that logic doesn’t necessarily check out to me, I guess I’m disgusting? Great to know. It’s also worth noting that I made that post as soon as the first accusation was made, well before Jesse’s statement. Fuck me for trying to keep a rational head and consider a larger picture, right? I still refer to the Conor Oberst incident, where a lot of people jumped the gun and immediately assumed he was a piece of shit without a shred of evidence. Did you scoff at those people too? What happens when the accused culprit turns out to be innocent? “Oh, whoops, looks like you guys were right and the whole thing was fabricated. My bad! lol” Am I close? But the fact Jesse made his statement after my post, and didn’t even address the age gap, is certainly concerning and really makes it impossible for anyone to defend him. Wish it wasn’t the case, but short of spelling out exactly what happened, I think we can all deduct that he’s rightfully in hot water and that more claims will bubble up to the surface, from the sounds of it.

People still need a line drawn in the sand for them to see whether pedophilia is OK or not.

You already made this """joke""" yesterday by the way and it's still just as void of humor as it was then. Please hurry up and get banned again.

I know how it makes me feel about not selling mine for that amount.

Sounds like proper late 90's throwback. Loud and dirty. Thanks. I might just snag a copy up. EDIT: Bought a copy. Hope they blow up someday.

The band (and the internet) is way more significant now then they were then. The Harvey Weinstein and Hollywood purge have amplified these stories now. Does seem like a lot of people knew though. Hurts my head too. Taking a simple 101 course in psychology or doing some research on psychology and the human behavior will show how wrong your point is. It's not that simple.

I got one. I read somewhere (prob on the SH forums) that the colored pressings were sent out randomly, but the black variant is the rarest.

Seems like it will be another Sonic Pieces release. Oh my god, I know. So gorgeous! I've been lucky to get most of their releases in the hand-made cloth sleeves, with the exception of Pino

Oh. Lol. No need for further explanation. I assume they decided to be pro-equal rights for all humans or something along those lines. Neat.

If anyone is so disgusted at their limited Brand New vinyl that it must find a new home to haunt, and must have it as far away from them as cheap as possible, send me a PM so I can relieve you of this great burden.

I don't think any of the stuff they're repressed has been that over priced, some of the test presses on the other hand... However I like that they are giving people access to buy some of this stuff if they really want it maybe ebay would've been the better place for that stuff though... looking at what they have up on there now there's still bargains e.g. Discordance Axis 2LP's for $8, Oceanic Remixes 2LP for $10...

that's a known comedian, troll "meme" account, and it's obviously extremely sarcastic. i think your outrage detector might be malfunctioning

Its a cheese and strawberry swirl.

Who is ready for the Punisher???? I am

But it's not like there's been any shortage of misogynist bullshit in this thread, what with Sunshine straight-up lying about Larkin Grimm...

In the with confidence situation the victim posted all the screen shots and its very disturbing

Looks like there's only circa 200 of the white vinyl with Alternative artwork available. US store states only 50 available and only around 130 available currently on the Europe store (presumably started at 150.) There's also an I Love LA 7" out this Friday available in UK indies that isn't on the Rough Trade Records store.

You're starting from a position that the victim is not credible and then you proceeded to look through their social media account looking for clues. That is not what I'd call a rational response. What are the characteristics of a credible victim? Is there a consistent enough set of behaviors amongst all victims of this kind of crime that one can confidently decide which are credible? Who decides whether a victim's behavior, absent of the law's assessment, is credible or believable or correct? Would that person need any training or skills to be able to confidently make those assessments? If there is an absence of enough information to answer any of these questions reliably, what do the national statistics on victims of this crime say about false reports? As boring as they are, those are rational questions you might ask if your gut instinct is to doubt the victim. Instead, what a lot of people have done, is try to improvise their own theory or philosophy on assault using very faulty information (such as their love of Brand New/Jesse Lacey, their memory of the Conor Oberst case, their gut feelings about women, their gut feelings about men, and, in extreme cases, overt propaganda against women). It makes total sense that you'd mishandle the reaction to this if you're cranking out a hot take on the fly but, if you really are trying to be rational and helpful, please be open to your initial assessment being misguided. Please don't double down on your on-the-fly hot take when you're presented with information that is new to you in regards to this specific case and also sexual assault/harassment cases, in general. The person "correcting" you may be doing it in a dickish way and I know it sucks to have someone mock or push back against something you came up with but please temporarily overlook that frustration and be open to the idea that women have some decent information to add to your perspective and that phrases like "believe victims" are used for a reason and that reason isn't to eradicate due process of law or to personally emasculate the male gender. There will be bad dudes who will delight in running victims through the mud, making LOL memes about sexual assault, and pretending to love sexual harassers/assaulters. Don't fall on their side of this stuff. Be OK with making mistakes and improving your reactions to these stories. At the very least, if you're not ready to go full 'believe victims', give the person speaking out a little more space and don't be the 100th dude saying "What happened to innocent until proven guilty/It says on her Tumblr that she is bipolar/She could have lied to him about her age" etc etc.

not surprising to see people trying to minimize this. this is not a one-time issue. its just one time you all know about. I am hoping more women speak up and out again him and other adults who take advantage of the young and naive.

ok so the rumors were true. looks like they are wrapping up an "amazing" career at this time this year now.

So why wasn’t red door on the album?

You should specify NO FLIPPERS in the title, then.

I think you’ve successfully held that title for this thread. At least you’re consistent in being a dickbag.

I'm glad everyone can see how shitty this band is now.

No you’re usually just an all around asshole to anyone on the boards. Obviously Jhulud is one of the nicest dudes on here and he’s clearly not joking about pedophilia but apparently you think we all need to know how much of a self righteous prick you are.

You already let me know you were stupid I don't need more proof.

Love these new variants but I already have 4 of these including the clear one....... do i really need another?

Fuck me

Rosetta - Utopioid $8 + $2 ship KEEP - For Your Joy /50 Red Sonic $7 + $5 ship (need to fix the ship rate for multiples)

As a non-american im not allowed to bring up a worldwide issue. Good to know. Never make this fault again. I guess my partly jokey comment went off sorry for that. Back to the topic now.